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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 376 pages long: 1 50 100 ... 138 139 140 141 142 ... 150 200 250 300 350 376 · «PREV / NEXT»
markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted May 27, 2015 08:05 AM

At expert water magic, forgetfullness is 100% against all shooters.....so quite nice. Cure/despell is kinda essential imo so water aint that bad.

As for fire. Curse is actualy pretty strong and frenzy/berserk can be good. But yes, overall worst class

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 27, 2015 10:39 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:28, 27 May 2015.

My rating of the schools:
1) Earth - Earth got all the best spells, Slow, Stone Skin, Shield, Town Portal, Anti-Magic, Earthquake, Sorrow, Animate Dead, Resurrection, Meteor Shower, Implosion. I struggle to find one bad earth magic. Best school for damaging spells.
2) Air - Haste, Lightning Bolt, Air Shield, Chain Lightning, Fly, Dimension Door, to Dimension Door 4 times a day speaks for it self. Hypnotize never works. Magic Mirror is worst level 5 spell. A school you'll probably use few, but good spells in.
3) Water - Many good spells like Bless, Cure, Teleport, Forgetfulness, Clone and Prayer and even better on water maps. Worst school for damaging spells.
4) Fire - Fire is a very situational school, there is Curse and Bloodlust, Blind, a HotA-improved Misfortune, an awesome Berserk and a very situational Armageddon, Frenzy can be good but risky, Sacrifice can be very good, but you probably can't use it very often, Inferno covers a big area but the damage is very low. Slayer is pathetic as a level 4 spell.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted May 27, 2015 10:59 AM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Never used Forgetfulness, it only triggers 50% and when armies are great enough do be a thread, I fly directly to ranged units, no need to use that spell.


It's situational. Not every faction has units that can cross the battlefield and block off enemy shooters before those shooters unload their ammo on your army. Furthermore, it doesn't really help against split stacks (for instance, neutral armies with 7 ranged stacks) and furthermore, it opens up the blocker to melee attacks from the other enemy stacks near the shooter(s). Dragons may be able to outlast some of that punishment, but for instance Dragonflies die like ... well, flies.

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted May 27, 2015 01:34 PM
Edited by hippox89 at 14:34, 27 May 2015.

You could argue that forgetfulness has indirectly been made potentially more useful in HotA because of the collection of Cyclops and Giants > Titans + Sea Dogs' Accurate Shot ability. And with Black Orb even Titans are affected, but because of Recanter's Clock and Red Orb there's no guarantee that you'll be able to cast it. But if you're allowed to cast mass forgetfulness on an opponent who has a lot of powerful shooters than it could prove effective. Also, if the opponent has more than a single powerstack of shooters then he'd need expert Water Magic myself to be able to dispel the effect completely. But shooters with no melee penalty is a factor to consider. Against neutral shooters it might do well enough, but there's just other and better options of dealing with them that doesn't involve having Water Magic.

Now, if there was an artefact combination set that would cast mass forgetfulness than that might be quite interesting, I suppose. It would also work against Red Orb, but not against Recanter's Clock (because it blocks spells above level 2 that is cast automatically by artefact combinations).

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted May 27, 2015 02:45 PM

Please notice how bizarre that would be in a siege. Both as attacker or defender. Free forgetfullness, blast (own) catapult, gg....

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted May 27, 2015 03:12 PM

@markmasters

Could you be a bit more specific because I'm not sure what you mean. But talking about sieges, forgetfulness doesn't affect either towers nor the catapult (immunity).

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted May 27, 2015 08:16 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 20:20, 27 May 2015.

Hourglass said:

Umm? I'm just a noob, but I always thought air and earth are the things you are looking for, and water is 3rd "best" school you can get.

I mean, you already listed 7 good water spells you're using, but what makes fire magic worth picking? Fire has no adventure spell, blind does not need  expert fire magic to be effective, berserk and arma are situational? Misfortune is better in hota, but still not worth casting, and there's better ways to make opponent to deal 50% of normal damage.


Depends on playstyle... water lacks good/powerful lvl5 spells. Curse, Berserk, Armageddon, Frenzy, Blind are damn powerful skills on expert Firemagic. Its quite funny on heavy and powerful RMG maps with tons of hard enemies to play with berserk when you got large groups of g.gorgons as enemy.

markmasters said:
At expert water magic, forgetfullness is 100% against all shooters.....so quite nice. Cure/despell is kinda essential imo so water aint that bad.

As for fire. Curse is actualy pretty strong and frenzy/berserk can be good. But yes, overall worst class


Maybe but when I would use it vs. ranged units (or brought water on expert level), I fly directly to ranged units and force them melee/destroy them right away.

Maurice said:
P4R4D0X0N said:
Never used Forgetfulness, it only triggers 50% and when armies are great enough do be a thread, I fly directly to ranged units, no need to use that spell.


It's situational. Not every faction has units that can cross the battlefield and block off enemy shooters before those shooters unload their ammo on your army. Furthermore, it doesn't really help against split stacks (for instance, neutral armies with 7 ranged stacks) and furthermore, it opens up the blocker to melee attacks from the other enemy stacks near the shooter(s). Dragons may be able to outlast some of that punishment, but for instance Dragonflies die like ... well, flies.


Maybe for fortress or stronghold... or if you play vs tower, but its use is quite limited imo.

@hippox89: As mass spell it would be different, but it would be a too great nerf vs. tower... maybe as major/relic artifact. On the other side titans are immune, Mages got no melee penalty... so it could work/force tower in a different playstyle, at least gremlins and mages are melee with an artifact like this, titans would still be immune except in combination with orb of vulnurablity.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 27, 2015 08:20 PM

fred79 said:
to the HotA team- i am interested in a treasure chest that you guys had in a screen a while back(circled in red):



if you guys still have it available(it doesn't look like you guys are going to use it) and are interested, i have a trade in mind. 5 sea barrels(that i just completed making) for that chest:



they're animated, of course. i wouldn't offer something substandard for trade.

if you guys aren't interested in the barrels, i could work on the chest graphic like i did the trees and fire back an upload like before. please let me know, either way. thanks.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted May 27, 2015 08:25 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 20:26, 27 May 2015.

The potion in screen is also unreleased, same as the ?pre? version of cove, the treasure Chest alternative in mid of screen. Early versions of the ship or hero are also reworked I guess. I think these missing graphics were all templates.

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted May 27, 2015 11:50 PM

hippox89 said:
@markmasters

Could you be a bit more specific because I'm not sure what you mean. But talking about sieges, forgetfulness doesn't affect either towers nor the catapult (immunity).


Sorry for not being clear.

Im just saying an artifact causing forgetfullness would be insane. As defender you should destroy enemy catapult and then the attacker is toast (maybe a few flying units help him).

As attacker its even worse. After auto forgetfullness the attacker destroys his own catapult and the defender has no means of defence except the arrow towers

This sounds broken....thats what i meant

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kalmahz
kalmahz

Tavern Dweller
posted May 28, 2015 07:39 AM

Guys I'm new to this community, I have HotA but don't know how to play with you, so if there is anybody still available for the game, please guide me
____________

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted May 28, 2015 08:19 AM
Edited by Hourglass at 08:19, 28 May 2015.

P4R4D0X0N said:


Depends on playstyle... water lacks good/powerful lvl5 spells. Curse, Berserk, Armageddon, Frenzy, Blind are damn powerful skills on expert Firemagic. Its quite funny on heavy and powerful RMG maps with tons of hard enemies to play with berserk when you got large groups of g.gorgons as enemy.


Well, it's true that berserk is a great spell especially against some non-mind spell immune hard stacks on the map. It's also true fire gets better stuff on greater magic guild lvls, but on the other hand, it doesn't get anything too great on lower lvls expect blind. Curse isn't bad, but if you have water magic, you have 3 ways to take out the that debuff. Later lvl fire spells can be good at right times, but I just find sacrifice, arma and frenzy too situational to make fire magic worth picking. I have always wished that inferno would do more dmg and fire shield could be cast as mass effect.

In the end, fire magic isn't bad, it's much better taking it than mysticism for example. But I would still hope fire could get something more going on in HotA. If they're planning to make more spells to the game, I wish fire school gets at least one new and awesome spell.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 28, 2015 11:00 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:16, 28 May 2015.

Hourglass said:


In the end, fire magic isn't bad, it's much better taking it than mysticism for example. But I would still hope fire could get something more going on in HotA. If they're planning to make more spells to the game, I wish fire school gets at least one new and awesome spell.


I have thought of this myself and since Fire is one spell behind the others it deserves a new spell.
Here is my idea: A level 4 counter spell for Prayer, could be called Damnation and lowers attack, defense and speed of the enemy, being a mass spell at expert Fire Magic, of course fire immune creatures won't be affected by it.
Another idea would be to make some kind of adventure spell for Fire as they only got Visions, like all the other schools.
To not have too many level 4 Fire spells maybe Slayer could be moved down to level 2 or 3 and Berserk and Armageddon moved up to level 5.
And Inferno really should do more damage as a level 4 spell. (Maybe Fireball and Frost Ring too)

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted May 29, 2015 12:14 AM

I would simply add some new spells, the only spell thats out of line is "slayer" atm. maybe "inferno" too. I even found a justification for counterstrike as lvl4 spell on vampirelords or hydras for example.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 29, 2015 02:15 AM

P4R4D0X0N said:
The potion in screen is also unreleased, same as the ?pre? version of cove, the treasure Chest alternative in mid of screen. Early versions of the ship or hero are also reworked I guess. I think these missing graphics were all templates.


yeah, there was a lot of stuff that they worked on(?), but haven't released, because(i think) it didn't flow with their idea of sticking to the original HoMM3 style graphics.

which sucks, and makes me wonder what other good graphics they might have(or had) lying around, that nobody will get to use, because it doesn't mesh well with their aesthetic plans, so it never gets released. this kind of thing reminds me of what happened with Forge.

i think i'll create a thread about this very topic.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted May 29, 2015 04:41 PM

If it helps, only the good stuff is/was released so far. We'll see what happen over time.

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 30, 2015 03:15 PM

fred79 said:
fred79 said:
to the HotA team- i am interested in a treasure chest that you guys had in a screen a while back(circled in red):



if you guys still have it available(it doesn't look like you guys are going to use it) and are interested, i have a trade in mind. 5 sea barrels(that i just completed making) for that chest:



they're animated, of course. i wouldn't offer something substandard for trade.

if you guys aren't interested in the barrels, i could work on the chest graphic like i did the trees and fire back an upload like before. please let me know, either way. thanks.



We may have that chest somewhere in archives... If we do, we can send it to you. As for barrels: forgive me the question, but are those original or taken from somewhere?

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 30, 2015 08:34 PM

the barrels i got from the civ3 forum, they were originally rolling barrels on land; i adapted them to be animated barrels in the ocean. i had to play with the different frames to get the proper animation, and offsetting one frame made the final difference. i kept comparing the animation with existing HoMM3 floating ocean object animation, and they match up visually(although i added a little surf break around the barrels, to remove the cookie-cutter effect). i found that darkening the surf break template frame i have worked, as there would be less wave interaction with something that wasn't stationary.

i am interested in more than just that one treasure chest(of your team's unreleased, and most likely unused graphics), as you can see from the thread i made about it. for now, i'm looking to complete my treasure chest lineup. i will probably have to work on the chest to get it to blend better with the other chests, but i look forward to it. shoot me an hcm and we can discuss further.

thanks for responding, as well.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted May 31, 2015 12:32 AM

So in that case it's a modified original... hard to use for something official. :/ I know that myself, I've done a lot of Mods over the year for lots of games. Everything modified not entirely build from scratch is "private use only".

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 31, 2015 01:46 AM
Edited by fred79 at 01:47, 31 May 2015.

really, dude? "official"? it's non-profit, fun, fan-based modding. don't even get me started...


if what i do is considered stealing, then what is it called when actual companies take your money, and produce sub-standard garbage for a fan? that's rhetorical, you don't have to answer it. this is the HotA thread, not the "is non-profit modding, stealing?" thread.

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