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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 447 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 90 180 270 360 ... 443 444 445 446 447 · «PREV / NEXT»
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 13, 2020 08:21 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 20:22, 13 Sep 2020.

This proves right my theory that the Mighty Gorgon's Death Stare is in fact a deadly combination of flies, stench and manure.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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gnollking
gnollking


Supreme Hero
Supreme Hero
posted September 14, 2020 02:56 PM

You can stare at someone without them looking at you
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Psyrebro
Psyrebro

Tavern Dweller
posted September 16, 2020 07:57 PM
Edited by Psyrebro at 20:05, 16 Sep 2020.

Hello, I'm not really sure if anyone relevant to development of HotA reads this forum regularly but I have some ideas about how to improve the game.
I would like to note that I am in no way expecting my ideas to be taken into consideration, they are just my thoughts since I love this game and have been playing it literally since I was a child.

Anyways, lets get to it.

Problems
-Magic schools are imbalanced
-Eagle Eye is extremely useless
-First Aid is extremely useless
-Diplo is OP (even if it's not post nerf)

Solutions

Spells

-1st step in balancing magic schools should be allowing all of them to have some utility.
-As we all know "Map Vision" is extremely important in this game, and the game lacks dedicated mechanics that lend themselves to bluffing and deception which are core in many popular games. So what would be my solution? Give Water and Fire utility. I would change "Visions" spell (if it's even codeable) to reveal a certain area of the map. Give Fire school also a spell "Brimstone clouds" that would hide a part of the map. Fine details of how many squares they would hide/reveal, manacost and number of casts per turn would need to be figured out in the interest of balance of course.
-Then I would focus on their damage spells. Fire should be go-to damage school, period. For instance, make fire spells cause "Burning" effect for example 3 turns. Base damage+1 tick of "Burning" should do more damage then any other comparable spell of the same spell-level. Example would be say Meteor Shower and Inferno, Inferno should always do more damage with its base damage+1 tick of "Burning" than Meteor shower does instantly. And after 3 ticks, it should do significantly more damage than Meteor shower. Why? Because damage over time effects would be inherently weak in this game. You would always choose to wipe out as many enemy units as you can instantly in order to minimise your losses when they attack you, than to give them a DoT effect that surpasses the base damage of comparable spell only on 2nd or 3rd tick of the "Burning" effect. That would make Fire school the king of damage, as it should be, while still allowing other schools to have some damage utility.
-Water should have something along the lines of "Frostbite" effect. Water school shouldn't be too damaging as it is right now, but "Frostbite" would make their damage spells a nice utility. Effect of "Frostbite" could be something similar to slow, lowering enemy speed, and might even decrease say, Defense stat of the affected unit.
-Earth damage spells like meteor shower and Implo, while still remaining strong, could get a trait of doing actually "physical" damage. That would mean that spell damage formula would actually take into consideration the "Defense" stat of the unit and "Spellpower" stat of the hero, obviously doing less damage the higher units "Defense" stat is. It would also mean that a "Frostbitten" unit which has lowered "Defense" stat would receive more damage from a physical spell like Implo or meteor shower.
-Air spells could deal medium-high damage with say 1 turn paralysis effect or something like that.
-Protection spells would not only reduce damage, but make your units immune to "Elemental statuses" of the appropriate school etc.

I would like to note that I have not thought out the formulas obviously, some work would need to be done to balance these effects, but I believe that these changes would not only help make the game more interesting and add flavor to the schools, but also make it more balanced and open up more strategies on how to approach every single game of HOMM 3.


Units and spell element interactions

-Another I think fun change to the game would be to give certain units elemental strengths and weaknesses. Those that make sense of course. For instance, all inferno units should have some small innate resistance to all Fire spells (15-20%), or maybe just make it so that they can't get "Burning" effect when damaged by "Fire element". Magogs should also do "Fire element" damage, which would make their attack have a "Burning" effect applied to it. (Every time, or chance) Inferno units could also have innate water weakness. Similar thing would go for Tower units, having some innate "Water element" resistance etc. Go through all units in the game and give them flavors like these where it's applicable and obvious. IE. make Treants weak to "Fire element", make Efreet attack have a "Fire element" so that it's a bit stronger against units that have fire weakness.

-There are two ways to approach this. Either make it so that when a unit with elemental attack hits a unit that is weak to that element receives additional damage, or make it have a 100% chance to apply the appropriate elemental status (Fire: Burning, Water: Frostbite etc.)


Secondary Skills

-Now onto the problem of Eagle Eye and other secondary skills. Eagle Eye could actually become permanent "Visions", as it levels up, range around your hero from which you can see the precise numbers of units and if they will join you increases. That would go hand in hand with Diplomacy, as you would have to pick up another Secondary Skill to use it effectively. It is also thematic, as you hero has "Eagle Eye" so he can discern enemy armies and their mood from distance. Eagle eye would still not be super useful, but not all skills need to be super useful, it would be okay for it to be situational, and have a strong synergy with Diplo in case you want to go that route, which makes it actually good in that case.

-First aid is also especially weak. It could be balanced with a thematic change to make it work similar to a weak necromancy. Basically revive a % of friendly units (based on health) after a battle (maybe of your choosing, imagine 20% of health can be revived, you lose 80 Pikemen and 1 angel which totals 1000hp, you could revive that 1 angel). The percentages are a point of debate and balance, but it could help early creeping significantly so that you don't bleed meat units, and can continue creeping, or so that if a fight goes south, you can recuperate some of the losses and not GG out instantly.

-Learning is super useless, and should either significantly increase the EXP gained, so that after 20 levels you are actualy couple of levels ahead, or make you have a chance to gain an additional primary skill point on every level up, or something along those lines. Again, it wouldn't become part of the main meta, but at least, if you are forced into it on your main, you wouldn't feel like you are completely scammed.

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RhayadeR
RhayadeR

Tavern Dweller
posted September 18, 2020 04:22 PM

How much does the lobby off ?
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massmarines1
massmarines1

Tavern Dweller
posted September 18, 2020 08:16 PM

Hi, what is the strongest town in hota against Necro?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 18, 2020 08:31 PM

Conflux

always has been.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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massmarines1
massmarines1

Tavern Dweller
posted September 18, 2020 09:36 PM

Don't know, with the new Conflux terran.

It is not as rich as for example grass imo. (on jebus)

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2020 09:47 PM

Jesus Christ

People going crazy without HotA news
____________
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 18, 2020 11:32 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 09:56, 19 Sep 2020.

@Gandalf196

What?

Ah, well, yeah, kinda true, although I doubt HotA will really use more than 15% of the ideas here.

Edit: Yeah, I was quite optimist, but saying less than 15% after people wrote essays with few chances of being actually used by HotA.... it's a bit harsh, but true.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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pizdabol
pizdabol


Hired Hero
posted September 19, 2020 09:46 AM
Edited by pizdabol at 09:59, 19 Sep 2020.

FirePaladin said:
@Gandalf196

What?

Ah, well, yeah, kinda true, although I doubt HotA will really use more than 15% of the ideas here.


15 seems quite generous I'd go with 0.5, and even then it's gonna be rather because it just so happened that someone's idea was simmilar to something the team had already planned, not because they actually took up to someone's opinion.

At least that's the feeling I get reading a bunch of posts from guys on the team. Not necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying.
Though there are some really good ideas out there, if you have the patience to dig through all the snow (I don't)

PS. This filter thingy has grown on me, very subtle

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Docent_Picolan
Docent_Picolan


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted September 19, 2020 02:42 PM
Edited by Docent_Picolan at 14:50, 19 Sep 2020.

Here's some long-awaited news for you.

As you might remember, the first unit sprites for the Factory to reach a somewhat rounded-up state were the Halflings (by Fiorin) and Gunslingers (by Axolotl). They were hastily created just in time to be featured at the 2019 Streamfest and ended up being the only creatures from the town's roster to be shown in the demo/trailer, as the rest were in very early stages of development by then. We would like to express our endless gratitude to both artists for providing those models, as without their help, we'd be left with zero Factory troops to showcase at that time.

However, in the course of roster development, these models proved obsolete and were crying for an update. We've already shown the Halflings remade by Dima Gravchenko, and we might even post a full article on them, provided we find some time for that. Recently, the Gunslingers went on the workbench, too. The rework was again executed by Dima Gravchenko, with the original model by Axolotl being imported into Blender and undergoing a wealth of adjustments. The non-upgraded unit had been 90% ready by July and found its way into the latest trailer, so this time it only underwent minor color tweaks and accessory updates. The upgraded unit has just been completed, its animations still being rendered as we speak. The final concept took only half an hour to draw and the adjustments were applied in just one day, which suggests that the visual image of the Bounty Hunter finally clicked.

Old:


New:


As it has been already said, the Gunslinger is conceptually an amalgam of a Western-styled head hunter and a witch hunter a la Van Hellsing. The initial version of the unit ended up being somewhat too Western looks-wise, i.e. too modern and American than initially implied. The updated version boasts the following:

- added accessories like belts, clasps, and the upgraded version's shoulder plate serve to strengthen the witch hunter vibe;
- new rifle design was introduced to add a more steampunk-ish feel;
- the image has become more refined, with the facial hair now more in the Hispanic style rather that the 'grimy saloon patron' mood of the early model;
- the overall design has been adjusted to appear more organic for the late Middle Ages/Renaissance era;
- the revised hat with a feather is a not-so-subtle nod to the "marksman" trope that abounds in history and fantasy;
- all the changes as a whole serve to shape the Gunslingers as an elite guard of sorts, which the campaign will feature them as;
- some technicalities have been worked in, such as reducing the Gunslingers' height in order for them to avoid appearing oversized in comparison to other humanoid units in the game; adjusting the sprite contrast ratio to a more natural level; tilting the unit's color range towards better matching the roster's general style.

An article about the Gunslingers might also happen, given the sheer amount of material amassed over the months, but don't hold your breath yet.



You probably want to know whether other models are also facing reworks - and we'll let you know that some tweaks are awaiting the Mechanics. Their tech level is going to be knocked down a notch, and, regrettably, they're going to lose their ciggies, as, despite being a great potential element of their character, they're simply looking way too modern - which comes as no surprise, seeing as they date back all the way to the attempt to recreate the Pyromaniac from the Forge, many years ago. Sure, we could replace the cigarette with a cigar or a pipe, but a cigar is a rather silly attempt at a compromise, and pipes have already been covered in the models of the Leprechaun and male Captain hero. Moreover, what worked well for the crazy, punky pyromaniac isn't going to play well with the sensible mechanical engineer - a lit cigarette inches away from a tank of highly flammable fuel obviously isn't good for occupational safety and health.

Some minor adjustments will also be applied to the Armadillo models.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted September 19, 2020 03:28 PM

Nice!

Will be cool to see how the changes towards mechanics turn out be. I actually really like the Mechanic design and color palette, and while there really wasn't anything too bad with Engineer either, her nose somehow sticks out in a bad way, and I just cannot unsee that anymore.

Will you consider making Armadillos a bit less "wide" from the player's perspective? Even big creatures have traditionally been capable of sticking in the hexes wide-wise, but Armadillos nose and a bit of their tail comes out of the hexes. I wonder what that's going to be look like, if there would be many Armadillos in a line in the battlefield. Other than that, Armadillo looks great!

About Bountyhunters: I can imagine them having shoulder pads in both of their arms, and while the unit looks really cool, wouldn't armor in that kind be somewhat inpractical for shooting?

Keep up the good job!

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Noro
Noro

Tavern Dweller
posted September 19, 2020 05:13 PM

I didn't really have an issue with the previous design but probably a good call to tone down the modern western influences and especially the height. The bounty hunter in particular feels more 'fantasy' now. Looking forward to seeing more.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted September 19, 2020 06:42 PM

Exciting news, thank you!

A small thought about the Bounty Hunters. I think they look a bit "senile"/Gandalf-like due to their very light (white) hair. Maybe it could be slightly more greyish.
This was already  the case with the old model but now there's more hair to look at.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 19, 2020 07:54 PM

All units looks great, I'm happy mechanics will be "de-modernized" and lose the cig though. Still waiting for those 2B's.

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Jaynetics
Jaynetics

Tavern Dweller
posted September 19, 2020 10:00 PM

Great calls! It seems we will get a technical faction without it feeling out of place at all. Crazy.

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Memo
Memo

Tavern Dweller
posted September 20, 2020 06:18 AM

Docent_Picolan said:
Here's some long-awaited news for you.

As you might remember, the first unit sprites for the Factory to reach a somewhat rounded-up state were the Halflings (by Fiorin) and Gunslingers (by Axolotl). They were hastily created just in time to be featured at the 2019 Streamfest and ended up being the only creatures from the town's roster to be shown in the demo/trailer, as the rest were in very early stages of development by then. We would like to express our endless gratitude to both artists for providing those models, as without their help, we'd be left with zero Factory troops to showcase at that time.

However, in the course of roster development, these models proved obsolete and were crying for an update. We've already shown the Halflings remade by Dima Gravchenko, and we might even post a full article on them, provided we find some time for that. Recently, the Gunslingers went on the workbench, too. The rework was again executed by Dima Gravchenko, with the original model by Axolotl being imported into Blender and undergoing a wealth of adjustments. The non-upgraded unit had been 90% ready by July and found its way into the latest trailer, so this time it only underwent minor color tweaks and accessory updates. The upgraded unit has just been completed, its animations still being rendered as we speak. The final concept took only half an hour to draw and the adjustments were applied in just one day, which suggests that the visual image of the Bounty Hunter finally clicked.

Old:


New:


As it has been already said, the Gunslinger is conceptually an amalgam of a Western-styled head hunter and a witch hunter a la Van Hellsing. The initial version of the unit ended up being somewhat too Western looks-wise, i.e. too modern and American than initially implied. The updated version boasts the following:

- added accessories like belts, clasps, and the upgraded version's shoulder plate serve to strengthen the witch hunter vibe;
- new rifle design was introduced to add a more steampunk-ish feel;
- the image has become more refined, with the facial hair now more in the Hispanic style rather that the 'grimy saloon patron' mood of the early model;
- the overall design has been adjusted to appear more organic for the late Middle Ages/Renaissance era;
- the revised hat with a feather is a not-so-subtle nod to the "marksman" trope that abounds in history and fantasy;
- all the changes as a whole serve to shape the Gunslingers as an elite guard of sorts, which the campaign will feature them as;
- some technicalities have been worked in, such as reducing the Gunslingers' height in order for them to avoid appearing oversized in comparison to other humanoid units in the game; adjusting the sprite contrast ratio to a more natural level; tilting the unit's color range towards better matching the roster's general style.

An article about the Gunslingers might also happen, given the sheer amount of material amassed over the months, but don't hold your breath yet.



You probably want to know whether other models are also facing reworks - and we'll let you know that some tweaks are awaiting the Mechanics. Their tech level is going to be knocked down a notch, and, regrettably, they're going to lose their ciggies, as, despite being a great potential element of their character, they're simply looking way too modern - which comes as no surprise, seeing as they date back all the way to the attempt to recreate the Pyromaniac from the Forge, many years ago. Sure, we could replace the cigarette with a cigar or a pipe, but a cigar is a rather silly attempt at a compromise, and pipes have already been covered in the models of the Leprechaun and male Captain hero. Moreover, what worked well for the crazy, punky pyromaniac isn't going to play well with the sensible mechanical engineer - a lit cigarette inches away from a tank of highly flammable fuel obviously isn't good for occupational safety and health.

Some minor adjustments will also be applied to the Armadillo models.



Numerous constant rework is of course very good. But in September you wanted to finish the city screen. Has it moved further now?
____________

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2020 08:53 AM

Quoting such long post makes your own post unnoticeable
____________

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syth
syth


Hired Hero
posted September 20, 2020 11:07 AM

Some info about the planned balance changes would also be nice ? thats the idea of community right we could debate and give feedback.

A new town sure is exciting but not as exciting as fixing the eagleeye and learning skill sets .

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 20, 2020 12:18 PM

Pretty chill news for now I guess.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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