|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted April 15, 2014 10:40 PM |
|
|
Aron said:
with so much chaos
you think that what's currently happening with the ukraine is chaos? lol, this is nothing. this is just another day on the job, for government. the actual chaos will come much later(and not necessarily in this particular situation), after the powers that war, destroy one another.
the chaos will be from our lack of clean drinking water, lack of food, lack of room, lack of resources, etc. if humans actually live to see that. they might not. they might not want to wait for the slow death; they might decide instead, to waste as many lives as possible, before that happens.
we'll just have to wait and see.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 11:31 AM |
|
|
Things seem to be going quite badly. Tymoshenko (and Turchynov) rallies some "national resistance", apparently the regular army either has little love for the government, or is not technically capable to deal with the riots in the east for some reason (no money for supplies?).
At the same time, there are reports for APCs bearing the Russian flag near Kramatorsk (not far from Donetsk). At this point it's not clear if they are captured by the separatists or just sent by Russia.
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 12:04 PM |
|
Edited by Aron at 12:22, 16 Apr 2014.
|
I was just quoting V 
Actually people seem to be doing the right thing:
http://rt.com/news/ukrainian-tanks-kramatorsk-civilians-840/
What would be nice is if people stoped being mesmerized by colors of some flag and went together with tanks and civilians, overthrew this government as well and started things over again.
But that won't happen.
Oh my god! The propaganda on BBC and in my countries local newspapers.
Lies that Russia is sending APCs into Ukraine!
They WON'T ACKNOWLEDGE that people are switching sides/refusing to participate. My snowing god are they ignorant of the internet?
Mother snowers.
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 07:23 PM |
|
|
Seriously. Read this.
Guardian/Reuters about EU sanction plans:
"The EU took a step towards imposing tougher economic sanctions on Russia by informing its member states of the likely impact of proposed measures on each of them. Countries have a week to respond before the European Commission starts drawing up plans for sanctions on energy, finance and trade.
To keep the sensitive material from leaking, each of the 28 member states was told only of the expected risks its own economy would face. The information was handed to each EU ambassador in a sealed brown envelope."
Wait, read this again. The European Union (who in the European Union?) is with-holding studies to member states of the extent of impact sanctions against Russia would have on the whole of Europe and limiting the reports only to individual countries.
So basically officially the EU is not a federation anymore?
Are they serious? It's actually a nation state?
____________
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 07:35 PM |
|
|
A United States of Europe would be pretty awesome.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 07:47 PM |
|
|
The EU is not a federation and has never been. There is no term for what it actually is but it's certainly far less organized - laws, common politics and so on - than your regular federations at this stage.
As for the impact from eventual sanctions on Russia - it will be quite hard on a large part of Eastern Europe and will be certainly felt in the west as well. If some of the EU countries decide to enforce such sanctions without taking into account the detailed opinion of those who will suffer from them the most (that means nothing less than compensating them for the losses), the internal stability of the union will be threatened. It will be an incredibly stupid move really, but it's also not very likely.
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 07:58 PM |
|
Edited by Aron at 20:00, 16 Apr 2014.
|
The point of this text of mine is to illustrate that the EU is considering it lawful to censor information to its sovereign members and their ambassadors as if they weren't working for them! Apparently it's not a federation and apparently it considers itself to be a nation state. Certainly not a loose association or such statements from anonymous Brussles buereaucrats wouldn't exist.
Who ever is not presenting my representatives; that is those I have elected in the EU-parliament and my nations ambassador with a full report on this fundamental issue is someone I want in chains.
____________
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 08:16 PM |
|
Edited by Zenofex at 20:17, 16 Apr 2014.
|
|
Something like that can't remain hidden. Each country is well-aware what are its economic relations with Russia and can do the math for itself. Bulgaria for instance imports some 90% of the natural gas that it uses from Russia and there is no way to get this amount from somewhere else for even remotely reasonable prices in short term. The situation is similar in other countries. The gas is not the only major resource that will become too scarce though, Russia just happens to own great supplies of many other raw materials which the European countries generously import currently. Truth is, there is no way to enforce sanctions and not to pay to the affected countries for the losses without a repercussion. Politicians can be bought but the response will come from the population and the companies which have tight relationships with Russia. It will take a special kind of idiot to suggest such a move and a large number of special idiots from many different countries to agree with him.
|
|
Aron
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 08:24 PM |
|
|
Obviously it can't. People talk to people.
But who the hell is the EU (seriously, who "in the EU" is deciding this, because obviously it's not its elected parliament nor can it be its council of ministers) to decide that its memberstates can't have access to this information? Who is pulling the strings?
____________
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2014 09:19 PM |
|
|
Catherine Ashton / Britain / NATO?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 12:17 PM |
|
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 12:22 PM |
|
|
heh. sanctions. funny word.
more sanctions will drive industries who's main exports end up in Russian market defunct and bancrupt, as comrade Putin will respond for embargos on their goods. Baltic meat and fish is one such thing now.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 12:29 PM |
|
|
And the troops sent to contain the separatists capturing key buildings in eastern ukraine got surrounded and forced to give up the locks of their guns lol. 
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 12:36 PM |
|
Edited by Zenofex at 12:42, 17 Apr 2014.
|
|
There have already been a lot of signs that the Kiev government does not trust its own regular army and intends to rely on paramilitaries to remain in power if things go badly. It's a joke really, with all the propaganda that the separatists have next to no support from the population and that the interim government is backed up by nearly all Ukrainians, now you have APCs captured by grannies...
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 12:41 PM |
|
Edited by kipshasz at 14:44, 17 Apr 2014.
|
soon all of the interim goverment will flee under Frau Merkel's skirt like that thief tymoshenko did.
on a related note, a meme:
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 05:37 PM |
|
Edited by Orzie at 17:38, 17 Apr 2014.
|
It's just hard to shoot your own people.
And yeah, for some reason people on Maidan were not oppressed by tanks. Something is wrong in this world.
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 05:53 PM |
|
|
Euromaidan: justified group of people fighting unjust oppression. yea sure. Nothing but a bunch of brainwashed young idiots supporting a clique of bandits and thieves that are sponsored by the west and engaging in such activities as murder, pillaging and looting.
really nice pogroms of those poor fellows that served in berkut. really well done 
Eastern Ukrainians now protests this junta which has established itself as the interim goverment of Ukraine. now that's separatism and terrorism, must purge with napalm and nukes, because the junta is the only legit goverment in ukraine right now
Epic.
Yea now someone like our dear brennuswhiskey will pop up and call me a pro russian terrorist and demand the mods to give a banana to me without backing his posts with decent arguments other than sounding like a broken record.
which is not nice at all.
Back in the grand medieval times, The Grand Duchy had such power and didn't bash Russians for every little screw up.
Now bashing ruskies is all the rage, just like blaming islamists for every little thing after 9/11.
And the idiots of EU will impose "sanctions" which do nothing on Russia, while comrade Putin will put embargo's on european goods and will halt the supply of gas, which in time will severely snow up the rest of Europe, while the Ukrainian junta will desperately try to maintain it's power until the people of Ukraine either lynch the crap out of them or the leaders of the junta will flee under the skirt of Drau Merkel.
either way, Ukraine will be wiped off the maps now. the nation is not unified in any way, and through the course of history it's been under one superpower or another. they just can't last.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 09:07 PM |
|
|
@Kip
You are spreading your non-sense again. Please try to understand one basic thing: People on Maidan were FOR Ukraine, separatists are AGAINST Ukraine. Or do you want me to explain why is that?
Here is one article especially for you:
Seven differences between Donetsk separatism and EuroMaidan
Also, stop believing Russian media. No single man from Ukrainian army joined separatists as of now.
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted April 17, 2014 11:09 PM |
|
Edited by kipshasz at 23:20, 17 Apr 2014.
|
My dearest comrade Ihor, what you don't understand that you were being used.
no one gives a tiny piece of bleep for your normal, every day Ukrainian, the same as my elected goverment doesn't give a tiny bleep about me.
You and your fellow maidowners were being used on behalf of the so called "opposition" to get in power. It is simple as that. once the country is deep enough in the crapper, they will abandon you.
I really hate to burst this bubble for you, as you seem a nice and smart guy, but you got to see the picture sooner or later.
THEY ARE snowING USING PEOPLE LIKE YOU open your god damn eyes.
and historically I am correct. sure there was the Kievan Rus, but it was devoured by the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Tsarist Russia with political marriage and conquest also the whole slavs there the raped and slaughtered by the Golden Horde at one point.
I'm sorry to say, but the whole nation is artificial. and such nations cannot stand long.sooner or later they will crumble.
Also to say the least I don't believe any media whatsoever. it's all controlled by some greedy jewish corporation anyways.
It's really funny the way that the mainstream media portrays all this "ruskie propganda" it's pathetic. even banning russian channles which I believe is ethnic discrimination for russian speaking minorities here. polaks can view the channels in polish, so, what did everyday average joe russian did to you, so you'd ban russian channels from the air.
It is really stupid. open your god damn eyes comrade Ihor, you and your fellow young adults of Ukraine are being used by this bandit clique. no good will come from it. this whole mess is a proof of it.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 18, 2014 05:37 AM |
|
Edited by Orzie at 07:03, 18 Apr 2014.
|
ihor said:
Also, stop believing Russian media. No single man from Ukrainian army joined separatists as of now.
This is the real nonsense. Mass media is full of photos with armored transporters with Russian flags, but... they admit that all of them are Ukrainian. So what do you think, the protesters just came to the military base, and politely asked for 10-15 transporters? 'Would you please give us some to maintain our power in this region' - and the army said 'Yeah, sure, you seem to be nice guys, take these transporters, but don't forget to return them back to us when everything ends'.
The one which is blinded by Ukrainian and pro-Western propaganda is you, my friend. These transporters cannot be captured by protesters as the army has the full right and ability to shoot. What do you think, all of the soldiers are disabled idiots unable to pull a trigger of their rusty rifles?
The only suitable explanation is that the army partially joined the separatists. And yes, some of the squads have really joined them, as it's still hard to shoot your own people and follow the orders of junta which has taken its ruling right by force, its followers oppressing Berkut in the time of Maidan and what is more important, oppressing them later on, pursuing them and sometimes their families.
The junta just forget that the soldiers have their own opinions too. They are also people who have families and it's obvious that some of them can't stand the chaos and anarchy in the country created by Maidan.
Congrats, it's the civil war. One does not simply change the government without a snowload of problems related. But people on Maidan of course did not take that into account, thinking that 40000 people can decide for the rest of 45 millions.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
