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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 04:22 PM |
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hammerhand said:
Doomforge said:
ChrisD1 said:
Bring a bird to Sylvan, dress it with leaves, make it have a rebirth ability,make it have a defensive aura that hurts attackers,but please don't name it Phoenix for the sake of H4. It's extremely inconsistent to the lore. very mind-gnawing.
gameplay-wise a flying unit indeed rocks.
It's more for the sake of HoMM1 & HoMM2, where phoenix was a sylvan (sorceress) creature.
no£¬it is because there were always flier champion in forest£¬from h1 to h5£¬give me flying dragon I will give up pheonix.
so? This is H7, not H1 to H5. I would want Dragons to be walkers though. It fits the whole earth theme.
Plus, H4 Nature was one of the worst part of Sylvan. H4 Nature and Sorceress factions are actually two of the worst factions in Heroes history.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 04:24 PM |
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cleglaw said:
JeremiahEmo said:
I don't like the Sylvan theme because:
1) Horrid start. Really? Another boring opera woman? It's not even nature-y
2) Mid - end. Very good if there's no flute. The flute fits middle-eastern theme, not nature-esque.
Get rid of the flute and the boring woman and this theme will be perfect.
please describe me what is nature-esque.
in my sentence, it is used to describe music you would expect to hear from nature.
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 04:26 PM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
Plus, H4 Nature was one of the worst part of Sylvan. H4 Nature and Sorceress factions are actually two of the worst factions in Heroes history.
You forgot to write down "in my opinion"
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 04:32 PM |
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foxxxer said:
JeremiahEmo said:
Plus, H4 Nature was one of the worst part of Sylvan. H4 Nature and Sorceress factions are actually two of the worst factions in Heroes history.
You forgot to write down "in my opinion"
it's not just my opinion actually. It's a fact.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 04:36 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:36, 16 Sep 2014.
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There's really no going around about it. That theme does not fit Sylvan because of what seems to be an oriental flute melody.
This is not just "my opinion" or "his opinion" but the prevalent opinion which got out Rob to make a reply to all the criticism. You just have to read the comments in the mmh7 page.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 04:43 PM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
I don't like the Sylvan theme because:
1) Horrid start. Really? Another boring opera woman? It's not even nature-y
2) Mid - end. Very good if there's no flute. The flute fits middle-eastern theme, not nature-esque.
Get rid of the flute and the boring woman and this theme will be perfect.
I've just listened to the Sylvan theme and am very surprised that it is very Turkish :/ Being Turkish, I'm actually bored of this type of music as it is everywhere. I just wish it went on the way it began.
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hammerhand
Hired Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 04:48 PM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
hammerhand said:
Doomforge said:
ChrisD1 said:
Bring a bird to Sylvan, dress it with leaves, make it have a rebirth ability,make it have a defensive aura that hurts attackers,but please don't name it Phoenix for the sake of H4. It's extremely inconsistent to the lore. very mind-gnawing.
gameplay-wise a flying unit indeed rocks.
It's more for the sake of HoMM1 & HoMM2, where phoenix was a sylvan (sorceress) creature.
no£¬it is because there were always flier champion in forest£¬from h1 to h5£¬give me flying dragon I will give up pheonix.
so? This is H7, not H1 to H5. I would want Dragons to be walkers though. It fits the whole earth theme.
Plus, H4 Nature was one of the worst part of Sylvan. H4 Nature and Sorceress factions are actually two of the worst factions in Heroes history.
fit the theme yes£¬but having two walking champion is boring£¬give me another flier. ubi discard pegasus and fairy dragon and other flier£¬they choose pheonix.
if I vote balance I can have treant and dragon at sametime£¬or a flier. what can I do£¿
what I exactly mean is£¬ if dragon can fly£¬more people will like fury and strength more.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 05:04 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 17:09, 16 Sep 2014.
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JeremiahEmo said:
cleglaw said:
JeremiahEmo said:
I don't like the Sylvan theme because:
1) Horrid start. Really? Another boring opera woman? It's not even nature-y
2) Mid - end. Very good if there's no flute. The flute fits middle-eastern theme, not nature-esque.
Get rid of the flute and the boring woman and this theme will be perfect.
please describe me what is nature-esque.
in my sentence, it is used to describe music you would expect to hear from nature.
and what-or-how do you expect to hear "music from nature"? is it even possible?
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 16, 2014 05:07 PM |
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I think he means something among the lines of... Enya?
Well if Enya were a man named "Enyo"...
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 16, 2014 05:11 PM |
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Enya would be epic sylvan theme indeed 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 05:12 PM |
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cleglaw said:
and what-or-how do you expect to hear "music from nature"? is it even possible?
Yes, let us listen to non-stop birdsong when playing Sylvan! 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 16, 2014 05:15 PM |
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Stevie said:
Besides NWC Elves and the rebirth cycle argument which is entirely besides the point I didn't see any real arguments connecting the Phoenix to the Ashan Elves lore.
Well..
Elves are the people of nature. Phoenix is relevant to nature's endless cycle of seasons. Elves, nature, phoenix?
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Phoenix_%28mythology%29
From religious and naturalistic symbolism in ancient Egypt [...]
the Bennu(earliest phoenix version) created itself from a fire that was burned on a holy tree in one of the sacred precincts of the temple of Ra.
In China, the phoenix is called Feng-huang and symbolizes completeness, incorporating the basic elements of music, colors, nature, as well as the joining of yin and yang. It is a symbol of peace [...]
From other sources:
In Judaism, the phoenix is known as Milcham or Chol (or Hol): The story of the phoenix begins in the Garden of Eden
The phoenix is a bird of Arabia, so called either because its colouring is Phoenician purple (Bennu also featured blue/purple)
When it is old, it builds a pyre of wood and spices and climbs on to it. (Guess where it finds them?  )
When it has lived for five centuries, it then builds a nest for itself in the topmost branches of a swaying palm tree, using only its beak and talons. As soon as it has lined it with cassia bark, and smooth spikes of nard, cinnamon fragments and yellow myrrh, it settles on top, and ends its life among the perfumes. (The Metamorphoses, Book 15, 391-417)
The phoenix, of which there is only one in the world, is the size of an eagle. It is gold around the neck, its body is purple, and its tail is blue with some rose-colored feathers. [1st century CE] (Natural History, Book 10, 2)
The phoenix is a bird of Arabia, which gets its name from its purple (phoeniceus) color; or because it is singular and unique in the world and the Arabs call singular and unique phoenix. It lives for 500 years or more. When it sees that it has grown old it builds a pyre for itself from spices and twigs, and facing the rays of the rising sun ignites a fire and fans it with its wings, and rises again from its own ashes. [7th century CE] (Etymologies, Book 12, 7:22)
hammerhand said:
and pheonixes in many culture can belong to forests too, slavic£¬Chinese, etc.in chinese myth, pheonixes dwell on a giant sacred tree.
It is obvious that there are more than one versions of the phoenix, differing on the colour, natural habitat and so on. But there are mentions of a blue phoenix, that lives in a woodland area. I bet most of you don't know that the unicorn has different versions either. How would you feel about a multi-coloured unicorn?
Bonus mention:
The firebird, phoenix's Russian cousin is said to glow wonderfully in the darkness of the forest and is often involved in great and impossible quests
This looks fantastic btw. I'd love that in the game
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 16, 2014 05:23 PM |
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That IS beautiful.
It still looks way too much like the Magic Bird imo. however ...
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What will happen now?
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 16, 2014 05:28 PM |
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Don't see why they couldn't come up with a perfectly reasonable lore explanation for how Phoenix can be part of Sylvan. It doesn't even have to be a retcon. Was it ever stated moon Phoenix is the only type of phoenix in Ashan?
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 05:28 PM |
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Thanks for the insight Elvin. Phoenixes do indeed are relevant with nature and that's what H4 Preserve proved too.
The point is that is very inconsistent in Ashan lore.
A unit that (according Ashan lore of course) is more akin to prime magic, has been used by another faction in a previous instalment, is not the best candidate for a faction that besides life celecrates their goddess of earth.
A flyer in Sylvan might be needed for gameplay reasons, but a phoenix (lore-wise) is not the best choice.
Would you like to see a moon-imp? escaping sheogh and deciding that it loves life and nature playing pranks on everybody but still being an imp frolicking in sylvan?
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 05:28 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 17:29, 16 Sep 2014.
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really nice post elvin. i ll copy/paste and use on internet if you okay with that?
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted September 16, 2014 05:35 PM |
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You know what? I used to be really against Balance, but I've actually warmed up to it a little (I still prefer the other two line-ups though) but I am no longer against any of the line-ups.
Elvin, where does that Phoenix picture come from, it looks great! 
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Kurush
Known Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 05:41 PM |
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blizz said:
Don't see why they couldn't come up with a perfectly reasonable lore explanation for how Phoenix can be part of Sylvan. It doesn't even have to be a retcon. Was it ever stated moon Phoenix is the only type of phoenix in Ashan?
Mahrzin said its gonna be Moonix.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 16, 2014 05:42 PM |
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blizz said:
Don't see why they couldn't come up with a perfectly reasonable lore explanation for how Phoenix can be part of Sylvan. It doesn't even have to be a retcon. Was it ever stated moon Phoenix is the only type of phoenix in Ashan?
That is the problem actually, if they make a third type of Phoenix that belongs to Sylvan, it would be kind of reasonable but we know that they are going with Moonixes this time again, Marzhin confirmed it...
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted September 16, 2014 05:46 PM |
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Kurush said:
Mahrzin said its gonna be Moonix.
Really? Well that's disappointing, I was hoping it would look something like Elvin's picture.
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This thread is pages long: 
