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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 423 pages long: 1 50 100 ... 146 147 148 149 150 ... 200 250 300 350 400 423 · «PREV / NEXT»
dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted April 01, 2016 08:02 PM
Edited by dredknight at 20:03, 01 Apr 2016.

thGryphn said:
I respect your view too. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have this conversation, but the current reality requires a skill wheel that covers beyond the ideal.


In regards to the internal skillwheel talk I will say just this.
When you do something you make it as good as perfect.

This means to make a skillwheel for each class as it is meant to be (default 12 skills).

By adding more skills you admit and accept the flaws.
By accepting the flaws as part of the game, you make them part of the game and purely philosophically you lower the chance of fixing it .

If you are in doubt just make a poll and see what people think.
I will definitely vote for default 12 skills.

If coding them is too much work to do, I dont mind later on to take some part of the job and help out with making them perfect.

Cheers

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2016 09:26 PM

dredknight said:
thGryphn said:
I respect your view too. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have this conversation, but the current reality requires a skill wheel that covers beyond the ideal.


In regards to the internal skillwheel talk I will say just this.
When you do something you make it as good as perfect.

This means to make a skillwheel for each class as it is meant to be (default 12 skills).

By adding more skills you admit and accept the flaws.
By accepting the flaws as part of the game, you make them part of the game and purely philosophically you lower the chance of fixing it .

If you are in doubt just make a poll and see what people think.
I will definitely vote for default 12 skills.

If coding them is too much work to do, I dont mind later on to take some part of the job and help out with making them perfect.

Cheers


Perfect. Exactly. Here is my definition of "perfect" in this little project: Functionality.

Have you played the Chieftain or Veteran classes recently?
Don't you see how "incomplete" and "imperfect" that would be to have a skill wheel that doesn't even show the skill you have, let alone a skill you start with?

To clarify one thing about my skill wheel design, there will still be 12 skills on the "wheel". The extra 2 skills will be on the peripherals. It will be clearly understood what the natural 12 skills are, for each class. I know a picture is worth more than one thousand words and I'll post a pic soon enough...

About this "bug", maybe magnomagus should chime in, is there a "plan" for fixing it? Is it even doable? I really have no idea, so I'm asking genuinely... I really hope the answer is yes, because I would really like to have a simple skill wheel with only 12 skills. But, if it's a no, then maybe we should all get used to having something that works awesome (the current state), providing an infinitely better gaming experience compared to the vanilla game, albeit being technically "flawed".


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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted April 01, 2016 09:48 PM

I was referring to problematic classes that get outside-of-the-box skills.

I dont mind Barbs presentation tobe different than the rest.
It will be different in the Open skillwheel program as well.

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2016 10:02 PM

dredknight said:
I was referring to problematic classes that get outside-of-the-box skills.

I dont mind Barbs presentation tobe different than the rest.
It will be different in the Open skillwheel program as well.



I don't see the two differently. Both are abominations, compared to the intended result.

To be honest, about those probabilities, I don't even know what it means to have a skill that's outside the 12. For example, with what probability a Veteran is offered a Learning upgrade? Is it any different from, for example, when a Knight picks up Dark Magic? How often that Knight would be offered Dark Magic upgrades?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 01, 2016 10:43 PM

The wheel design should obviously be based on 12 skills

but how do you even planning on implementing 22 skillwheels ingame? this would require to add 22-24 buttons on the levelup window.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2016 11:23 PM

To make sure everyone correctly understands the idea, here is what I have:



The 12 skills on the "wheel". The extras on the bottom corners.




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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2016 11:39 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 23:40, 01 Apr 2016.

magnomagus said:
The wheel design should obviously be based on 12 skills

but how do you even planning on implementing 22 skillwheels ingame? this would require to add 22-24 buttons on the levelup window.


Can't we put a single "Skill Wheel" button on the Level-Up box?
That button would trigger this page above...

To clarify further, the class icons that you see on the left are buttons that bring the relevant skill wheel on click. So, yeah, I did implement 22 different skill wheels

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 02, 2016 01:35 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 01:38, 02 Apr 2016.

I think it is technically possible, but I should warn you it is difficult and the entire structure must be build ingame 2 times because you cannot simply link from a level-up screen button to the manual in the hero info windows. The game doesn't allow that because it is 'internally in another screen'.

I recommend figuring out all that before continuing work on the graphics, because that is the most tedious part of the work. Also how do you plan to fit in the skill descriptions? .. EDIT ok I see now you want them to popup in the middle, but have you figured out how to do that in game as well?

Regardless this looks great!



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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 02, 2016 01:56 AM

magnomagus said:
I think it is technically possible, but I should warn you it is difficult and the entire structure must be build ingame 2 times because you cannot simply link from a level-up screen button to the manual in the hero info windows. The game doesn't allow that because it is 'internally in another screen'.

I recommend figuring out all that before continuing work on the graphics, because that is the most tedious part of the work. Also how do you plan to fit in the skill descriptions? .. EDIT ok I see now you want them to popup in the middle, but have you figured out how to do that in game as well?

Regardless this looks great!





No worries about the descriptions working in-game... They work very nicely

It seems though I need to figure out the Level-Up box. If it's just duplicating the files, it's easy.... but I'll check what it's about.

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 02, 2016 02:44 AM
Edited by thGryphn at 02:44, 02 Apr 2016.

@magno
I looked at what you did. You really duplicated everything... but I found a very easy way to add the the Skill Tree button on the Level-Up box and it works like a charm.

All I had to do was to add the following under the children list at LevelUpBox.WindowSimpleShared:

/UI/Doc/Skills/Button.(WindowMSButton).xdb#xpointer(/WindowMSButton)
/UI/Doc/Skills/Skills.(WindowSimple).xdb#xpointer(/WindowSimple)

Of course now it looks like a mess because you changed places of things but the Skill Tree button works.

Problem solved, I think...



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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 02, 2016 10:47 AM

You are a miracle worker!

Is there any logic behind order in which you placed the factions because in game it is almost always: Haven,Sylvan,Inferno,Necro,Aca,Dungeon,Fortress,Stronghold
That's why it looks illogical to me.
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted April 02, 2016 11:00 AM

thGryphn said:
To make sure everyone correctly understands the idea, here is what I have:



The 12 skills on the "wheel". The extras on the bottom corners.






Looks amazing I must say, hope it will work.

I personally do not any problem in having the 13th and 14th extra skill in the wheel as it can be very helpful and it does not conflict with the main 12 skillsystem.

Just I want you to ask, how difficult would be to replace all the texts in the skillwheel by another ones? I mean, in the case you will be successful with adding the wheel into the game (and I hope you will), I would really like to see once the Czech version of the wheel too in the game :-)
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dredknight
dredknight


Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted April 02, 2016 11:02 AM

Gryphn it looks great! really like the wheel!

magnomagus said:

Is there any logic behind order in which you placed the factions because in game it is almost always: Haven,Sylvan,Inferno,Necro,Aca,Dungeon,Fortress,Stronghold
That's why it looks illogical to me.


Actually it is Haven, Inferno, Necro, Sylvan, Dungeon, Academy, Fortress, Stronghold

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted April 02, 2016 11:03 AM

I would personally really prefer to see the factions in this order:

HAVEN
INFERNO
NECROPOLIS
DUNGEON
SYLVAN
ACADEMY
FORTRESS
STRONGHOLD

or

HAVEN
ACADEMY
NECROPOLIS
STRONGHOLD
SYLVAN
DUNGEON
INFERNOFORTRESS
INFERNOFORTRESS
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
posted April 02, 2016 11:05 AM

dredknight said:
Gryphn it looks great! really like the wheel!

magnomagus said:

Is there any logic behind order in which you placed the factions because in game it is almost always: Haven,Sylvan,Inferno,Necro,Aca,Dungeon,Fortress,Stronghold
That's why it looks illogical to me.


Actually it is Haven, Inferno, Necro, Sylvan, Dungeon, Academy, Fortress, Stronghold


The same idea at the same time :-D
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 02, 2016 11:59 AM

magnomagus said:
You are a miracle worker!

Is there any logic behind order in which you placed the factions because in game it is almost always: Haven,Sylvan,Inferno,Necro,Aca,Dungeon,Fortress,Stronghold
That's why it looks illogical to me.


Haha
It seems though I spoke too soon, but then I re-fixed it.

I realized that with that quick-fix above, the Skill Tree was loading very slow. The buttons were not responsive for at least two minutes. I figured it's because it's really loading the files from another internal screen, and the culprit of the long wait are the huge background images. 37 files of size 4MB.

So, now I'm duplicating a few more files, basically only the windowsimple.xdb files so that they don't load from the get go. The setting for that is the visible flag, which should be set to false.

Now, the Skill Tree works pretty much as soon as it shows

I'm happy you guys liked the design. I had told you: the 12-skill system is there, with two side-kicks

The ordering of the factions you see is as naive as it gets: alphabetical
I can easily put them in any order as desired, as long as there is consensus


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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 02, 2016 12:20 PM

Antalyan said:

Looks amazing I must say, hope it will work.

I personally do not any problem in having the 13th and 14th extra skill in the wheel as it can be very helpful and it does not conflict with the main 12 skillsystem.

Just I want you to ask, how difficult would be to replace all the texts in the skillwheel by another ones? I mean, in the case you will be successful with adding the wheel into the game (and I hope you will), I would really like to see once the Czech version of the wheel too in the game :-)


Thanks for the support!

Changing the skill descriptions on the skill wheel require usage of GIMP with the DDS plugin. I can give you the source file and all you would need to do (for each of the ~250 descriptions, lol) change the text in the textbox and export as dds, and then overwrite the existing dds.

The other text that needs to be changed is the info screen, which is WIP, and class names (which you see as ACADEMY ~ Elementalist). Info screen is just another textbox, but the class names are done in Excel as wordart. I can provide you with the Excel source file but you would have to copy the wordart as new layer in GIMP, do the right placement, and then export as dds.

Unfortunately, GIMP does not import text from file, nor it supports fancy textboxes afaik



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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted April 02, 2016 12:26 PM

Ok let's settle for the order dredknight just said, because it is the same as the custom game menu.

(the order I gave was from some internal stuff)
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Belisarius
Belisarius


Promising
Known Hero
posted April 02, 2016 01:31 PM
Edited by Belisarius at 13:36, 02 Apr 2016.

I like the skillwheel!

Dred has the order right when choosing your race in custom game menu.

But the race order in maps created with ARMG (at least in my case) is:

Haven
Sylvan
Academy
Fortress
Inferno
Necropolis
Dungeon
Stronghold



For example:
If I choose a map template in ARMG for 8 players that is signed as #All, and then I put less than 8 players, ARMG creates it with filling races/players from top to bottom in that order. So, for Ultima 8 #All, if I choose only 4 players, I can only get: Haven, Sylvan, Academy, Fortress.

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 02, 2016 02:39 PM

Belisarius said:
I like the skillwheel!

Dred has the order right when choosing your race in custom game menu.

But the race order in maps created with ARMG (at least in my case) is:

Haven
Sylvan
Academy
Fortress
Inferno
Necropolis
Dungeon
Stronghold



For example:
If I choose a map template in ARMG for 8 players that is signed as #All, and then I put less than 8 players, ARMG creates it with filling races/players from top to bottom in that order. So, for Ultima 8 #All, if I choose only 4 players, I can only get: Haven, Sylvan, Academy, Fortress.



That ordering sounds non-random in a bad way: first the good guys, than the bad.

Let this be a bug report

I'll implement the order confirmed by magno above.

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