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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 253 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 50 100 150 200 ... 249 250 251 252 253 · «PREV / NEXT»
dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2015 09:53 AM

magnomagus said:
Hotseat works 100%. According to dredknights testing 31j LAN works if only human players are involved, not AI players. 8 skillslots can be used and I also fixed the UI. The mod can also work with a regular 3.1 exe that supports might and magic classes.



@Magnomagus, 8 skills can be enabled for both players and it works for both of them BUT it breaks the game after one of them levels up.
Not sure why, but I am going to dig more into it. I have to reinstall my H5 as i messed up the EXE icons ( i got around 5-6 different ones).

After that I will test again.




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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 07, 2015 11:54 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:03, 07 May 2015.

I just made clean install with alpha version of my mod, and in Hotseat I had no issues. Could you please verify if artifact guards was off when you tested?, because that option also activates neutral heroes.

EDIT:
If artifact guards was off, it may be better to wait for my next release before testing again, I don't wanna waste your time.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2015 12:09 PM

Ok I think I was not clear on the above statement.

Hotseat: 8 skills, neutral champs, artifact guards (and probably taxes) - Works!!!

LAN: 8 skills, neutral champs and artifact guards (all together and each of those alone) -
can be activated for both players and start a game.
Unfortunately, when one of the players levels up and gives a turn the other does not get a turn so both players are in a waiting phase and you cant play further.
Luckily this can be due to flaw in testing. I had so many exes in my folder that i didnt know which is which ( i chagned names etc..) so I reinstalled the game and now we test the 8 skills option again. By the end of the day I will have results.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 07, 2015 12:21 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:25, 07 May 2015.

Quote:
I had so many exes in my folder that i didnt know which is which ( i chagned names etc..)


Thank you for your trouble, I think this can only be the issue if you and your friend were not using exactly the same exe with exactly the same name OR if there was junk in your data/maps/userMods folder. The game ignores junk in the bin folder, but not always in those other folders.

EDIT:

Could you give me the names of some maps you use for testing?
____________
MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2015 02:08 PM

- Warlords (3 versions) default from the game + 2 more (warlords calmity and Warlords Of Norway - from maps4heroes site).
- Heldentod
- The Road Less Traveled
- Last Hope
- Wasserspiel
- City of Gold

probably a few others as well.

Currently the the 8 skills work in multiplayer.
We leveled up 4-5 times and no issues detected

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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2015 03:03 PM

So you activated 8 skills in mutli - with or without taxes/neutral heroes?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 07, 2015 03:03 PM

That's great!, I wanted to check those maps possible missing script functions or conflicting mod content, but they came out clean. I wonder did you also test with simultaneous turns on?

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2015 04:47 PM

Nope I have not.

I think I can clearly verify that 8th skills is working for LAN.
level 11 now and game is still going on fine.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 07, 2015 05:18 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 18:47, 07 May 2015.

Great, moving on, I will come back to the sorcerer balance.

Here are more screenshots for battle sites with large battlefields and HD textures, don't mind the weird armies, they are from a week 1 test map.

Dragon Utopia



Dwarven Treasure



Sylvan battle sites





witch bank



Mage vault


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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted May 07, 2015 06:55 PM

I wondered what you were up to of late but never dreamed you'd be making this great effort.

Awesome...and soo needed.

Cheers x 3


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Pavijan
Pavijan


Adventuring Hero
posted May 07, 2015 08:02 PM
Edited by Pavijan at 20:03, 07 May 2015.

Oh, my god! Large battlefields! My dream is becoming true. Love you man.

Just a few questions:

1) Since you are making new hero models, does that mean that every class (and gender?) will have an unique model, unlike in RPE where 2 of the 3 classes per faction had the same one?

2) Will bigger battlefields be a selectable option before you start the map of will they show up only at specific sites?

3) That Mining skill on screenshot: does that mean that your secondary hero hero that has that skill will be able to just sit at the same place every day and just dig stuff out at every turn? If that's so I don't thing it's a very idea...

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stachnie
stachnie


Adventuring Hero
posted May 07, 2015 10:23 PM

Looks absolutely great. Will it be compatible with non-English language versions?

S.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2015 10:43 PM
Edited by dredknight at 09:21, 08 May 2015.

magnomagus said:
Great, moving on, I will come back to the sorcerer balance.


Great, I read the whole thread and I am full of ideas that regard a lot of areas in might and magic lore throughout the different games (1,2,3,5,6) when it comes to mechanics and how things work. I am going to post a full scale thread in the altar of wishes but here I will post a pinch of it that regards H5 tote + RPE + QAI regarding heroes  mainly.

First, I will start small - how to make hero improvement more reasonable.
Roughly we have 2 types of heroes and 4 sets of skills - Racial skills, Might skills, Magic skills and skills which are OK for any hero. Deliberately excluding shatters, they are meant for another thread I also negate the specific but will mention them for synergy benefits.

Racial skills - avenger, Necromancy, Artificer, Runelore, Gating, blood rage.
Might skills: Offense, defense, Combat, Leadership, War Machines
Magic skills: Light magic, Dark Magic, Destruction magic, Summoning magic, Sorcery(shouting), Occultism
other skills: Luck, Logistics, Enlightenment (Learning).

What huge problem we have is that Might hero advancement is constant, stackable and persistent throughout the game, which is not the case with . Here are some facts.

THINGS THAT MAKE MIGHT HEROES GOOD
Reference: Might class gets 75% of the time they level up attack or defense point

1. Most of the might skills (and their perks) are good on their own - offense, defense, leadership, war machines (somehow not so good in big PvP battles but give big advantage early on)
2. They stack with each other in any combination.
3. They are self-sufficient (do not cripple your game no matter how you  pick them).
4. They are viable in any stage of the game, and are stackable with racial skills - avenger, bloodrage, gating (stronger summons), necromancy (stronger army of raised), artificer (synergy with artifacts), Runelore.

Now going to Magic classes and why there are so many flaws in there.
What makes them good, what makes them bad.

THINGS THAT MAKE MAGIC HEROES GOOD(or not so, or do they?)
Reference: Magic class gets 75% of the time they level up spell power or knowledge point
1. Magic gives range! Magic removes the limits of your faction!
(no archers? - no problemo throwing some fireballs and chain lightings to cover the range
units not fast enough? - its a point of subjectivity, hasten yours or slow the enemy
not enough units? - those earth elementals will smash everything on week 1!)
2. Some skills strongly depend on others. Sorcery is useless with 2-4 knowledge. Sorcery and its perks  are useless if you have no magic school skills.
3. Point 2 is viable for Occultism - no point early game. The only good thing late game is Empowered spells (and Dark ritual sometimes).
But you spent 3-4 level points just for that.
4. Nevertheless how many and how much magic skills you have, you only cast once (or 1.3 times per turn with sorcery). If you have summoning, dark magic, light magic and destruction you do not benefit at all. Not including that your magic guild is limited to certain spell schools which is totally OK but limits the output of that school skill.
5. Some magic spells can be used to full potential by Might hero as well, nevertheless of his spell power or knowledge (haste, slow - this is being fixed in the next edition of spells that Magnamaurus is making, I just add it here as a fact).
6. (RPE) spells are very good early-midgame but some of them just do not work in the late game (whatever improvements you do implosion will still do nothing against 200 tier 7 whatever).
7. Spell power and knowledge improve hero abilities but do not improve  
creature abilities at all (disregard artificer).



ARE YOU OUTTA YOUR MIND OR YOU JUST HATE MAGIC CLASSES? IT CANT BE ALL SO BROKEN!

Actually I love both classes, I just see the issues there.
Broken? yes and no, at the same time. here is why I think so.
Have you ever wondered, in all heroes games (never played H4 and H6 so forgive me if magic was strong) so far (forget about frenzy and blind for a second), if you play magic hero you always come to point where you cant go forward because you are not strong enough (PvE) or you are run over by your noob friend (PvP) who just happened to get lvl 22 Craighack.

Now, check this 3 points and follow my correlation.

1. Hero improvement is exponential. Basically this means that you either need to fight more or stronger enemies to get to the next level.
2. Might attributes (attack and defense) and skills  are percent based. This means that you get the same efficiency from that skill nevertheless what army you are facing.
3. Magic attributes improve magics flat - locked to a formula similar to this damage=SP*40 or close to none, which means the ability of certain magic is free
some examples - haste, slow and their mass effect, Weakness, Vulnerability. You only need the school mastery.

Might heroes and their skills utilize army. Army increase on a weekly basis. Because of point 2 the potential of the army increases.
Magic heroes and their skills utilize magic based on spell power.
Spell power progress stops and does not give equally good bonuses in different stages in the game.


SOME POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

Here are some ideas I have come upon or already exist.

1. Regarding spells that do direct damage or damage over time - Not sure if it is possible but changing the formula from
Basic/advance/expert damage + SP * DAMAGE to Basic/advance/expert damage + SP * (DAMAGE + X * Hero level)  

Where X is 1 or some other multiplier will do the trick.
This way every time your hero goes up you know that the spell power POWER increases .

2. Regarding spells that reduce/improve stats - h5 and h3 spells were very flat. their duration was the only variable. This gives the power to cast those spells (haste, slow, weakness, etc..) on full power by might heroes as well which is unfortunate. What can be done is reducing significantly the flat value and add some Spell power dependency. This is actually something we already talked about with Magnomagus but I am adding it for flavor. The compromise will still be such that will make those magics good even with low SP.
Lets say weakness will made from -12 attack to -(8 + 0.2) or -(6 + 0.25).
Same goes for initiative modifiers from 20%/30%/40% it will be reduced to 10/15/20 + 0.5% per sp.

3. Duration, nothing to say here - it is good that magno reduced the duration of the spells by 0.5 per sp. so I am basically just stating the obvious.

4. This is something I have thought a lot. What if hero spell power improved the spell power of the creatures as well? may be not by 100% but lets say by half of it? This way a lich owned by strong necromancer may prefer to poison instead of shoot.
Same goes for:
- Mages and Academy elementalist
- Sorcerers + pitlords + horned overseers

I just feel great by only thinking about it ;D.

5. Improve knowledge It may also improve creature mana pool by  1 mana for every 3 knowledge.

6. [RPE]Sorcery improvement - Just as leadership improves the army, make Sorcery to increase army casters initiative as well, not only the hero (may be add such perk in sorcery? Empathy vice versa).

7. [RPE] Occultism improvement - it is usable only for destruction. Feels more like a perk of destruction then a skill on its own. Empower is great but this is the only good thing!

- One idea is to make occultism double. Expert penetrates 100% (or 90%).
There are not so many resistant creatures in the game anyway.

- Soulfire should be happening 100% of the time. Also change the damage formula to scale with the health of the killed stack? hero SP or/and hero level.

Note: If we consider the above spell power adjustments occultism becomes not bad at all, as most of the perks give spell power!


I know it is not all possible but do you like it?  

P.S. @Magnomagus, check your private box.

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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 09:03 AM

Hey magno,

Nice nice.
I only wonder some things:
Do you program your code etc. so that its editable?
Do you give us a readme where we you explain how to edit things?
Example:
Monsters in the different Banks.

Is it possible to install only some parts of your mod?
Example:
If someone only wants only the rmg + the Arenas - is it possible to split it?

Thx for your answers

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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted May 08, 2015 09:44 AM

A wonderful effort to extend the life of HoMM5. I really hope this can be finished in a reasonable time. Thank you !

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 08, 2015 11:30 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 11:32, 08 May 2015.

Quote:
1) Since you are making new hero models, does that mean that every class (and gender?) will have an unique model, unlike in RPE where 2 of the 3 classes per faction had the same one?

2) Will bigger battlefields be a selectable option before you start the map of will they show up only at specific sites?

3) That Mining skill on screenshot: does that mean that your secondary hero hero that has that skill will be able to just sit at the same place every day and just dig stuff out at every turn? If that's so I don't thing it's a very idea...


1. If I would be doing that the mod would never get released, because that is too much for a single person.

2. Currently they are connected to battle sites which offer much bigger battles scaled to the player. MMH5.5 has much more battle sites than TOE. Battle sites have also new reset rules: for other players it resets in only 7 days, while for yourself its resets in 2 months. Making all combat maps big actually causes some serious balance issues with the game, because shooters become much much stronger and all those kill 1x golem stack battles would become even easier. Big combat map actually means you need a big battle.

3. Its currently the same as estates and h4 mining, so yes, but balance changes can be done if needed. currently secondary heroes will need to go through various level ups to get the skill.

Quote:
Looks absolutely great. Will it be compatible with non-English language versions?


I will have my hands full with the english version, but any volunteers for translating will get the assistance required (after first beta)

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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted May 08, 2015 11:48 AM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
1)
Quote:
Looks absolutely great. Will it be compatible with non-English language versions?


I will have my hands full with the english version, but any volunteers for translating will get the assistance required (after first beta)


I can do the german one ^^

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 08, 2015 12:17 PM

@dredknight:

great post, but I think you are a bit too negative about magic heroes, considering all the improvements already done. Especially taking in mind that original TOE was already 100% better than H3SOD in this respect. I don't think there are issues with sorcery skill, acting more often than the enemy is of crucial importance. Empowered spells+ caster's luck+50% artifact really takes long to wear off, especially in comparison to the might heroes ballista.
Knowledge and SP affecting creatures is a great idea, unfortunately I lack the script functions to affect creature stats in combat. I currently need to work on my presentation for the skill system imrpovements, so I will come back to occultism later.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 08, 2015 12:28 PM

Quote:
Do you program your code etc. so that its editable?


It is editable.

Quote:
Do you give us a readme where we you explain how to edit things?


Basically, unzipping the files will get you started.

Quote:
If someone only wants only the rmg + the Arenas - is it possible to split it?


A skilled modder can do it, but in the first releases i need everything together for smooth testing process.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted May 08, 2015 04:15 PM

magnomagus said:
@dredknight:

great post, but I think you are a bit too negative about magic heroes, considering all the improvements already done. Especially taking in mind that original TOE was already 100% better than H3SOD in this respect. I don't think there are issues with sorcery skill, acting more often than the enemy is of crucial importance. Empowered spells+ caster's luck+50% artifact really takes long to wear off, especially in comparison to the might heroes ballista.


Globally I meant that magic heroes are a bit chaotic in advancement. I guess that is what makes them or breaks them.



Knowledge and SP affecting creatures is a great idea, unfortunately I lack the script functions to affect creature stats in combat. I currently need to work on my presentation for the skill system imrpovements, so I will come back to occultism later.


I need to know if it is possible. I have some coding skills (bash, C, C++, a little bit ruby) but I dont code for a living. I know how object oriented coding works as well.

I best learn from examples so I need to see some already done scripts (those for russian h5 TE edition will do the job, do you know where I can get them?).


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