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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design
Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design This thread is 14 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT»
strigvir
strigvir


Adventuring Hero
posted September 16, 2017 02:57 AM

Nargott said:


The question is not "is it your system good enough?". The question is "will your system be better with second (rare) school for might-classes?" 2 magics + 2 shatters versus 1 magic + 3 shatters.

Only two magic schools are relevant for might heroes. Adding summoning or destruction to the mix won't lead to "surprises", only to weaker heroes due to insufficient Spellpower.
I guess Wardens can be quite good summoners due to Leadership and Summoning on one class and High Druids in the faction, but you've declared hybrids weak, so whatever.

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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted September 16, 2017 03:21 AM
Edited by Nargott at 04:27, 16 Sep 2017.

strigvir said:
but you've declared hybrids weak, so whatever.

I said that hybrids have weakness of their stats.
It doesn't equal to "hybrids are commonly weaker than other types".

Yes, I understand that difference between 45% and 35% stat seems to be insignificantly because of artifacts etc. But if you play many games (not one-two), this difference can create problems, not 4-5 extra statistical key parameter at level 30-40 but 10+ if you are unlucky.

Quote:
Only two magic schools are relevant for might heroes. Adding summoning or destruction to the mix won't lead to "surprises", only to weaker heroes due to insufficient Spellpower.

I wrote about it. Might classes are poor because their magical stats are the same. Because the only group for Might is chosen "Attack + Defence" (classical Knight) and doesn't include Attack + SpellPower (classical Warlock, or battle variation of Warlock) or Attack + Knowledge (classical Demonlord). In that conditions, Summoning/Destructive will not work. Because that schools are not created for human Knights with Attack + Defence.

If I correctly understand author's concept, there are no ways for evolving Might heroes. Only Attack + Defence. The same is about Magic class (SpellPower + Knowledge). Because all these classes was created for supporting classical Knightish and Archmage styles for all the fractions.

This means that Might-class never get secondary school except Light/Dark.

But Attack+SpellPower, Attack+Knowledge, Defence+Spellpower and Defence+Knowledge can be realized at Hybrid classes, all 8 variants. One of them is already - Assasin (but his profile may be evolved from 70 to 75%). Hybrid classes are free from ideology of knightish pure Might and archmagi pure Magic. Thats why Hybrid classes can include classes (or their parametral types) from original game.

What about Magic class? There are no classes with top 40-50% knowledge except artificier Wizard, 7 other classes have similar 40-50% spellpower (plus not Magic Heretic). This is because spells are cheapest and not require higher knowledge. How to fix that I had wrote when offering expensive powerful spells.

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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted September 16, 2017 10:25 AM
Edited by Nargott at 11:00, 16 Sep 2017.

Balanced:

Paladin: 15/35/20/30 to 10/40/20/30 or 10/45/15/30 (D + K), 65% profile to 70-75%
Reaver: 35/15/20/30 to 40/10/20/30 or 45/10/15/30 (A + K), 65% profile to 70-75%
Runemage: 15/35/30/20 to 10/40/30/20 or 10/45/30/15 (D + S), 65% profile to 70-75%
Assassin: 40/10/30/20 or 45/10/30/15 (A + S), 70-75% profile

Gatekeeper: 35/15/25/25 to 30/10/20/40 (K + A), no profile to 70% profile
Warden: 15/35/25/25 to 10/30/20/40 (K + D), no profile to 70% profile
Shaman: 15/25/35/25 to 10/30/40/20 (S + D), no profile to 70% profile
Heretic: 30/15/35/20 to 30/10/40/20 or 30/10/45/15 (S + A), 65% profile to 70-75%

Magic (half of all classes playing by high knowledge, not only spellpower):

Druid: 10/20/40/30 to 10/15/30/45 (K + S)
Flamekeeper: 15/10/45/30 to 15/10/30/45 (K + S)
Witch: 20/10/40/30 to 20/10/30/40 (K + S)
Wizard: 10/15/30/45 to 10/10/30/50 (K + S)

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 16, 2017 11:05 AM
Edited by dredknight at 11:25, 16 Sep 2017.

@Nargott, I do not recall telling balanced classes are weak. I said that they do not have the same army punching power as mights and do not have the same magic strength as mages. That is true.

But you can say for them is that they have more magic strength than might and higher army punching power than magic heroes.

Also very often their specializations revolve around utility feats that are not accessible to Mights or Magics. I can give you 100 examples:
Haven:
- Nicolcay - Sentinel (0.75% archer protection per level) this makes up for not being full might hero. He also has access to second spell school summoning.
- Godrick - Defdender of Faith - gains more T5 per week. This is equal to more archers and melee strength in defense mode.
- Freya - casts bonus bloodlust every time she casts light spell. This is very important feat having in mind the duration of the blesses and it makes her both stronger defensively and offensively (combine mass endurance with bloodlust for example?). She also has access to summoning.
- Rutger - 1% logistics bonus per 2 levels. He also does not start with logistics so the player has the choice to get logistics and try to win the game getting more castles, mines, treasuries, creature dwellings. The other way is to not take the logistics skill and just to rely on the constantly growing specialization. This way he can build a good fighter build and still be more versatile on the map than a normal might. He also has summoning skill.

Inferno - Alastor - he starts with confusion. Probably the only specialization that I did not like as it does not stack very good with the levels. Magno can we give him +1 knowledge as well so he can use it more often early game ?

Grok - Rusher - he starts with teleportation spell and has logistics bonus. The idea that he does not have light but has teleport on a half price says it all about battlefield tactical approaches.

Nymus - Master of Gating - basically this is the only place this specialization can be. If it was owned by Might class it would be too overwhelming. If it is owned by magic class it will create too much defending troops for the mage to block his main army. This hero right here is one of my favorite hybrid examples as his span of development is really wide (from might to magic).

Jezebeth - +1/+1 to Succubi per 2 levels.

I can go on and on. Hybrids are one of my favorites as you have the most tools in the game but need to execute them in the proper way. It is like fine tunning a piano .
===================================================================
Regarding the % of primary skills, 5-10% is not going to do a lot as there are a lot of artifacts on the map that you can fight for and select the ones to strengthen your strategy.

Magno is right. It is advisable to try a game on a medium map at least. Adventure map adds a lot to the whole story. After playing some games I learned how to not only start a game and get my mines but how to systematically arrange my hero movements so I can maximize the economical growth and increase unit hatching.


==================================================================

Regarding Might classes having 2 magic schools. I think what you refer is the balanced classes. They have 2 magic schools.

I just got the most weirdest comparison between WGE and MMH55. I hope it clears some mystery.

What you did with creatures and their stats/abilities in WGE is what we did with classes in MMH55.

- in WGE the creatures that are very tough and always have high damage output are slow and have weak initiative.
- Fliers have the highest speed
- riders have medium speed
- soldiers have the lowest speed

- in MMH55 the heroes that add a lot of endurance and punching power to the army for free are usually tardy on the map early game and lack variation in the magic department. You can say that for the enemy Might heroes have a lot of surprises on the battlefield but none in their spellbook.
- Magic heroes are the opposite they have a great variety in spells (they can learn all schools even though natively they have access to only 2) but lack the army maneuverability capabilities on the battlefield.
- Balanced heroes are somewhere in between depending on secondary skill development path and the choice of artifacts.

=====================================================================
Regarding mana and spell costs - 600 mana pool is probably in a game that lasts for about 8 to 10 months. If it was earlier than that hero lacked a lot in attack and defense.

Also I cannot imagine the punching strength of the might hero who have the same amount of time to develop his skills. Also 20-30 mana spells are not that cheap. In big army fights a lot of mana is spent because the enemy army stack is significant at that stage of the game. If you go out of mana at any time at that stage the magic hero losses the battle automatically.

This is why you can see a lot of knowledge boosting perks and perks that help you regain mana. They may seem weak to you but it depends on the class you pick, the knowledge he gains through level up and artifacts and the strategy he wants to utilize.

When observing the % values it may seem the same but you should not disregard the choice of the player we have given to alter them with artifacts and secondary skills. So when you take those things in consideration the 5-10% primary skill differences look more like a flavour.
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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted September 16, 2017 11:18 AM
Edited by Nargott at 11:39, 16 Sep 2017.

@dredknight:

You can't create effective build that specialize to the all parameters, because there are no synergy. Usually there are one or two key stats and balanced classes don't have these strong key stats.

Do you think that if we give them key stats, they will become imbalanced? Or do you think that it will not them better, but killing universality?

What about PvE, killing neutral creatures can any hero, because there are many ways to abuse AI weakness, so I look at PvP. At the start of the game stats are small, and 5-10% difference can't be significant. At the end of the game you already have "immortal combo army/build for killing all on the map". And the only real danger is opponent player.

Quote:
So when you take those things in consideration the 5-10% primary skill differences look more like a flavour.

I know what when you are playing much PvE, there are many factors that influence stronger than small advantages/disadvantages.
But in that rare cases where both players are nearly equal at the end of game, 4-5 key stats will be the advantage to win (70% winrate or even more).
If you wish to ignore that potential advantage, you may - this is not the thing that breakes balance (while PvE factor is much).

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 16, 2017 11:30 AM
Edited by dredknight at 11:34, 16 Sep 2017.

Nargott said:
@dredknight:

You can't create effective build that specialize to the all parameters, because there are no synergy. Usually there are one or two key stats and balanced classes don't have these strong key stats.

Do you think that if we give them key stats, they will become imbalanced? Or do you think that it will not them better, but killing universality?


It is not about balance. By giving fixed strong status you remove one very strong aspect of MMH55.
The choice of the player to adjust his build to the style he wants.

If you give 60% to one stat then you know this hero is only good for that thing be it attack,defense, spellpower or knowledge.

By decreasing the differences between stats you still have stronger skill after a couple of levels but in case you feel you want strengthen other hero abilities and reduce his main strength you still can.

Check the above post I edited a few times after you posted. I added some thoughts there.

P.S. The time you spend on the adventure map is what shapes a significant part of your hero.

P.S.S

I had another thought. If you remove the adventure map thing and put the heroes in a fighting arena they will be totally unbalanced.
We are preparing an Arena module for MMh55 and there are a lot of additional changes that are made to compensate for lack of adventure map game time which leads to no economical, dwelling boost or artifact benefits.

Adventure map is really the key here.
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 16, 2017 11:39 AM
Edited by dredknight at 11:41, 16 Sep 2017.

Quote:
What about PvE, killing neutral creatures can any hero, because there are many ways to abuse AI weakness, so I look at PvP. At the start of the game stats are small, and 5-10% difference can't be significant. At the end of the game you already have "immortal combo army/build for killing all on the map". And the only real danger is opponent player.


Yes you are correct some classes/factions have a bit better late game than others but from practical point of view you can still suffer losses.  Plus the streams you have watched are for fun.

When it comes to PvP you try to maximize every PvE endeavour into economical  growth then turn it into army which helps you to fight the next monsters earliest as possible. I have not played for a long time but I am sure that up to beginning month 3 all battles are very demanding be it if you try to outplay your enemy economically or just try to charge him with the least casualties possible.

All depends on the map size of course.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 16, 2017 11:50 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 11:57, 16 Sep 2017.

Quote:
You can't create effective build that specialize to the all parameters, because there are no synergy. Usually there are one or two key stats and balanced classes don't have these strong key stats.


That's wrong, even if a class has 4 x 25%, in H55 it will still be balanced, because A&D are always usefull, Light and Dark are still effective even if S is not very high and an excess K will improve resurrection and creature growth which will make up for having not enough A&D.

Also differences in levelup primary skills are very minor fluctuations.
A perk like arcane exaltation give S+4, artifact Ring Shadowbrand S+4, empowered spells equivalent of even more S. So focus is much more dependant on players choices.

Quote:
What about PvE, killing neutral creatures can any hero, because there are many ways to abuse AI weakness, so I look at PvP. At the start of the game stats are small, and 5-10% difference can't be significant. At the end of the game you already have "immortal combo army/build for killing all on the map". And the only real danger is opponent player.


No you are talking about H3 and H5 PvE, in H55 PvE treat is much bigger and keeps growing faster in late game, up to 7x mixed stack with numbers 10000 or 100000 of creatures. Theoretically you will face millions of creatures if you play long enough. Expert players can also tweak the settings and make them much harder.

If you don't play the game you will keep making these uninformed posts.
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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted September 16, 2017 11:55 AM
Edited by Nargott at 12:11, 16 Sep 2017.

Yes, I understand that there are only two strong profiles you are supporting: Might (A+D) and Magic (S+K). If a player want to play alternative style, he choose balanced class and construct that style by himself.
This opinion is clearly, but I guess that having more strong profiles is better. Imagine that you don't have your Might or Magic classes, how comfortable is constructing that styles based on balanced classes?

Quote:
That's wrong, even if a class has 4 x 25%, in H55 it will still be balanced, because A&D are always usefull, Light and Dark are still effective even if S is not very high and an excess K will improve resurrection and creature growth which will make up for having not enough A&D.

Sorry but in PvP I don't believe you
Stats may work but key stats work better always if a player choose target build, not random build. This is fundamental rule.
If you create PvP arena, you can see the difference clearly. While you are playing much PvE there are many other factors that distract.

Quote:
No you are talking about H3 and H5 PvE, in H55 PvE treat is much bigger and keeps growing faster in late game, up to 7x mixed stack with numbers 10000 or 100000 of creatures. Theoretically you will face millions of creatures if you play long enough. Expert players can also tweak the settings and make them much harder.

It's not a danger, 1 millions or not, because if you can defeat them without losing half of your army, it means that you are much stronger even if your army is less. And if you are already stronger, +4-5 stats doesn't influence so much as in equal battle (like PvP).

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 16, 2017 12:11 PM

Quote:
Stats may work but key stats work better always if a player choose target build, not random build. This is fundamental rule.


Nonsense, in H3 and H5TOE, K and S are simply underpowered except in early game, so the more A&D you exchange for them the weaker you ultimately get.

In order to balance duel presets you will have to find different ways to account for benefits gained during exploration, if done properly there is no problem.
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 16, 2017 12:18 PM
Edited by dredknight at 12:19, 16 Sep 2017.

Nargott said:

It's not a danger, 1 millions or not, because if you can defeat them without losing half of your army, it means that you are much stronger even if your army is less. And if you are already stronger, +4-5 stats doesn't influence so much as in equal battle (like PvP).


Play a big map for 6 months on "very strong" monster settings and you will see what Magno is talking about. The more your pace slows down in castle expanding and economy the more you get behind the weekly creature growth on the map.

Sure the human factor plays a role as we are smarter than the AI but at some point the size of the enemy just crushes you no matter what.
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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted September 16, 2017 12:20 PM
Edited by Nargott at 12:27, 16 Sep 2017.

magnomagus said:
Nonsense, in H3 and H5TOE, K and S are simply underpowered except in early game, so the more A&D you exchange for them the weaker you ultimately get.

In order to balance duel presets you will have to find different ways to account for benefits gained during exploration, if done properly there is no problem.

Your opinion is based and probably fair only to your experience of playing 3-6+ monthes games when the magic work badly

Duel presets is not PvP arena for testing classes, because there are presets but not builds that player choose.

The main idea was in conditions of clear PvP and equal battle (PvE battle is never equal) without any external factors and left bonus, this is show clearly how game mechanis of parameters is work.

Quote:
Play a big map for 6 months on "very strong" monster settings and you will see what Magno is talking about. The more your pace slows down in castle expanding and economy the more you get behind the weekly creature growth on the map.

It may be difficult to abuse AI weakness, it may be required much skill (technique) but it never be equal battle by results. Because if there is really nearly equal battle, you have gigantic losses after that, and you lose the game immediately after that

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 16, 2017 12:22 PM

Quote:
It's not a danger, 1 millions or not, because if you can defeat them without losing half of your army, it means that you are much stronger even if your army is less. And if you are already stronger, +4-5 stats doesn't influence so much as in equal battle (like PvP).


No, if you have to defeat 10 of such armies in row, the weaker player will have lost more troops over all these battles than his opponent and therefore will end up in a weaker position in the final battle.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 16, 2017 12:31 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:32, 16 Sep 2017.

Quote:
Your opinion is based and probably fair only to your experience of playing 3-6+ monthes games when the magic work badly


Concerning H3 and TOE yes, but in short games heroes will also be of lower level. So level 20 = 20 primary skills. This is such a small amount that minor fluctuations between 65% or 75% barely matter, since the focus will be even more on artifacts and perks. So in the type of games you like to play it matters even less.
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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted September 16, 2017 12:49 PM
Edited by Nargott at 13:45, 16 Sep 2017.

magnomagus said:

No, if you have to defeat 10 of such armies in row, the weaker player will have lost more troops over all these battles than his opponent and therefore will end up in a weaker position in the final battle.

Ok, lets take an experiment.

Try to combat 51 monks to 50 monks. You will end with army of ~10 monks. This is the cost of +1 monk in equal battle.

Then try to combat 51 monks to 20 monks. And 50 monks to 20 monks. The difference in losses will be much less than 10 monks.

You say that you defeat neutrals many times in row but I strongly doubt that you have enough tests of multiple times of 100 battles per series, to determine which stats are better, key or random.

My opinion of that key stats is stronger, based on that fact that stats are never be equal. Their effectiveness is always based on current situation and conditions. And if I build for example Magic hero, I create such conditions where getting Spellpower is better than getting Attack.

Quote:
Concerning H3 and TOE yes, but in short games heroes will also be of lower level. So level 20 = 20 primary skills. This is such a small amount that minor fluctuations between 65% or 75% barely matter, since the focus will be even more on artifacts and perks. So in the type of games you like to play it matters even less.

No no no. In TotE at 20 levels and 5% parameters (not 3.33%) there is a big practical difference in PvP depending of how the stats are lay down. Big difference between 30% spellpower and 40% spellpower. Because there are +3-4 spellpower which gives up to +20% stronger spells which are the main weapon to defeating enemy (if you build magic).

I think that discussing about how strong key stats are, is no need.
The main question is which classes you want to have, balanced formless (have not strong profile) of styled hybrids (have strong profile but other than Might or Magic).
How I understand, DredKnight likes balanced formless classes. And the only styled hybrid now is Assassin (near it because 70% profile is not 75-80%).

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 16, 2017 01:43 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 13:45, 16 Sep 2017.

Quote:
No no no. In TotE at 20 levels and 5% parameters (not 3.33%) there is a big practical difference in PvP depending of how the stats are lay down. Big difference between 30% spellpower and 40% spellpower. Because there are +3-4 spellpower which gives up to +20% stronger spells which are the main weapon to defeating enemy (if you build magic).


Your feelings are far away from the math.

20 x 0.4 = 8 spell power
20 x 0.3 = 6 spellpower

You can easily get +10 spellpower from 2 perks and 1 artifact.

So you end up with

18 spellpower OR
16 spellpower +1A +1D

Tiny bit stronger spells vs Tiny bit stronger creatures, no relevance. Especially in H55 where Spellpower boosts might buffs and nerfs in light and dark schools.
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 16, 2017 01:48 PM
Edited by dredknight at 13:52, 16 Sep 2017.

Nargott said:


Quote:
Concerning H3 and TOE yes, but in short games heroes will also be of lower level. So level 20 = 20 primary skills. This is such a small amount that minor fluctuations between 65% or 75% barely matter, since the focus will be even more on artifacts and perks. So in the type of games you like to play it matters even less.

No no no. In TotE at 20 levels and 5% parameters (not 3.33%) there is a big practical difference in PvP depending of how the stats are lay down. Big difference between 30% spellpower and 40% spellpower. Because there are +3-4 spellpower which gives up to +20% stronger spells which are the main weapon to defeating enemy (if you build magic).


As far as I recall this is not true. In ToTe a lot of important spells do not matter than much on spellpower. Even if they matter they are weak anyways or strong anyways (vengeance?, puppet?, Frezny?) no matter what the SP value is.

The only school where SP matters the most is destruction and as far as I recall its strength faded very fast.


Also when we refer to attack and defense in ToTe it is not the 5% or 3.33% that makes the difference. What makes the difference is the blind spots in classes. Here is an example:

Necromancers gained mostly defense and spellpower.
Knights gained mostly Attack and Defense.

Basically they match your idea of stat focusing. The problem is that when Necromancers fight Haven their creatures will do near 0 damage because attack of Necro creatures will be way lower than defense of Knight's creatures. Because of the  huge gap Necro creatures will do nearly nothing on the battlefield. This means the faction has a blind spot that cannot be countered in any way and forces the player to play the same type of specific style.

The same thing is valid for Broodwar. If you don't go for any cheese early game (BBS, 4-5 pool, Proxy gate) and grow the same way you are forced to a specific strategy behavior because early to mid game:
Teran > Zerg
Protoss > Teran
Zerg > Protos

The above statement means that the weaker race have to play defensively and gets to a higher level of technology to counter the stronger T1 units of the enemy race:

Zergling/hydra > Zealots/Dragoons
Marines/Firebats/medics > zerglings/Hydras
Zealots/Dragons > Marines/firebats/medics

This is valid for heroes V ToTE too because of how faction heroes gain primary skills and create huge gap once they meet on the battlefield.

In MMH55 you can pick a class and prepare a build (secondary skills with artifacts) to close the gap the enemy hero will create and this way reduce his efficiency when you meet. This is what I call the sword vs shield tactics. You see the sword you put the shield (traditional counter).

Another way to approach this is to create a Hero build that somehow uses a blind spot in the enemy hero abilities.
For example if you know your enemy focuses on dark and puppet/frenzy instead of getting Shatter dark you can go just for very high defense and no offense secondary skill so when he puppets/frenzy your army it actually will do nearly no damage to itself (I did try that and works like a charm).  This is what I call the cheese counter. You do something that does not counter the enemy directly but somehow makes him miss. This is what I call a cheese counter.

Basically MMH55 brings a whole lot of mind games even though you may not even see enemy flag till month 3 or 4 (depending on map size and play style).
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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted September 16, 2017 01:49 PM
Edited by Nargott at 14:06, 16 Sep 2017.

magnomagus said:
Quote:
No no no. In TotE at 20 levels and 5% parameters (not 3.33%) there is a big practical difference in PvP depending of how the stats are lay down. Big difference between 30% spellpower and 40% spellpower. Because there are +3-4 spellpower which gives up to +20% stronger spells which are the main weapon to defeating enemy (if you build magic).


Your feelings are far away from the math.

20 x 0.4 = 8 spell power
20 x 0.3 = 6 spellpower

You can easily get +10 spellpower from 2 perks and 1 artifact.

So you end up with

18 spellpower OR
16 spellpower +1A +1D

Tiny bit stronger spells vs Tiny bit stronger creatures, no relevance. Especially in H55 where Spellpower boosts might buffs and nerfs in light and dark schools.

I never feels far away from the math

Because 40% (or 45%) means +1 starting stat (3 instead of 2).
Because in magic build very often there is an expert Enlightenment, which give another 10 random stats.
So 2+1+1 = 4 extra stats.

In Half-Random Tactical Arena (PvP) 16 is poor spellpower near to auto-lose (or very bad chances to win) for Magic builds because they have not enough critical power. But 20 spellpower is minimal required to get good spells (25 is excellent and 30 is near to imba).

Quote:
Even if they matter they are weak anyways or strong anyways (vengeance?, puppet?, Frezny?) no matter what the SP value is.

Puppet Master, Plague, Blind, Vengeance, Resurrection, Words, summoning and destructive spells. All the best and most important spells for Magic hero.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 16, 2017 02:03 PM

Quote:
Because 40% (or 45%) means +1 starting stat (3 instead of 2, or 2 instead of 1). Because in magic build very often there is an expert Enlightenment, which give another 10 random stats.
So 2+1+1 = 4 extra stats.


yeah so

10x0.4 = 4, +1 starting bonus
10x0.3 = 3

So end up

19 SP, +2A +2D
23 SP

Still no big deal, both scenarios are equally strong and battle can go either way.

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 16, 2017 02:06 PM

paid advertisement: the MMH55 skillwheel has spellpower calculator. @Nargott you can go ahead and compare how SP numbers actually increase spell effectiveness.
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