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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design
Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design This thread is 14 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 05, 2015 11:47 AM

Quote:
Sorry guys i was writing about PvP and there warpath + snatch is really strong and nearly everybody tries to take it.
And yes i found out that warpath still exists but it is named differently.


Mathematical reality is not different in PvP, warpath is weak. Logistics in TOE may simply not have anything more interesting to offer

Quote:
So my last question: Has random atb value been removed ?


Read Deflaktors patch collection thread last posts.


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ldongder
ldongder


Adventuring Hero
posted August 08, 2015 04:46 PM
Edited by ldongder at 16:48, 08 Aug 2015.

About skill system design

Hi Magno,

Some comments here:

Artificer skill is only available to Academy heroes(three classes), but other formerly know faction skill- like Necromancy is even available to Dungeon and Inferno. And also the Avenger skill is only available to one class of the three in sylvan.

You are making formerly-known faction skills more available to other factions, but this is not complete,some formerly-known faction skills are still only available to their previous owner like Gating. I personally still prefer that one faction has its own faction skill- only available to this faction.

Just want to know your ideas or principles to organize these skills this way in your work.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 09, 2015 11:30 AM

Quote:
I personally still prefer that one faction has its own faction skill- only available to this faction.


Not possible for a might and magic system, because racial skills are might or magic focused and sometimes require heroes to use abilities they don't have time for if they are magic heroes.

In H55 skills are always based on class, never on faction. Essentially like H4 not H5. Certain skills like avenger cannot be used by other classes because of hardcoded limitations of modding.
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DrOwnage
DrOwnage


Adventuring Hero
posted August 10, 2015 08:20 AM

I just started an ARMG match with my TOH Veteran Kispagat and i have 2 questions:

Do i understand the system right, that for example to get snatch i need to take pathfinding and then navigation ?

Does the skill wheel has any significance now ?

I cant find warpath in the ingame manual, even though i can get it. How is it integrated in this system ?

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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2015 10:58 AM

Yes you understood it:

To get snatch you Need pathfinding and Navigation...

The normal skillwheel isnt significant to this mod. Use the ingame skill description

Warpath is integrated in a gating perk called pillager.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 10, 2015 12:21 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:26, 10 Aug 2015.

Quote:
Does the skill wheel has any significance now ?


A wheel is just a method for visual presentation, it has nothing to do with the mechanics of the skill system itself. There was no reason to picture the skills from MMH7 in a wheel other than that it just looked nice. TOE needed a gigantic skillwheel because the system was so chaotic (and also imbalanced), it was the only way to make any sense out of it.

The MMH55 is thematic and completely symmetrical, because of that you will start to memorize it after playing it many times, which makes the game easier to play.

The method how to read it is also ingame: click the treant saplings icon!


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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2015 08:20 PM

Can you list requirements for old Ultimate Skills for Each Race?


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 10, 2015 09:33 PM

?? They are already listed
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2015 11:40 PM

Ok. I'll probably get ultimate on Markal and maybe Ra3lag and Findan.

I find out that 8 skills works in campaign mode. In haven mission 5 Nicolai have 7 skills and level 26.

I used a secondary hero to check it.

I Will post screen later.

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DrOwnage
DrOwnage


Adventuring Hero
posted August 11, 2015 09:05 AM
Edited by DrOwnage at 09:06, 11 Aug 2015.

lotihoti said:
Use the ingame skill description

Warpath is integrated in a gating perk called pillager.


I wrote that the ingame manual doesnt describe everything. When i played orcs with this mod i took logs, pathfinding and was offered warpath (it was named pillage i think). According to ingame warpath can only be taken via gating skill.
So can i get warpath as it was before in 3.1 ? It seems so because i had no gating with that orc.

Note: I play only PvP.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 11, 2015 11:06 AM

Quote:
I find out that 8 skills works in campaign mode. In haven mission 5 Nicolai have 7 skills and level 26.


Well, that's an interesting development, apparantly the game can grow new features out of itself.


Quote:
I wrote that the ingame manual doesnt describe everything. When i played orcs with this mod i took logs, pathfinding and was offered warpath (it was named pillage i think). According to ingame warpath can only be taken via gating skill.


I think you have a conflicting mod installed, probably a custom map in your maps folder.
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted August 11, 2015 11:08 AM



This is Nicolai from Haven Final Mission.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 11, 2015 11:13 AM

I guess if its activated in singleplayer it works, but it must have been like this for years as I cannot make changes to this. Also i don't know if 7th skills can carryover.
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted August 11, 2015 02:19 PM

I don't know, maybe it works for AI Heroes? I could only get 6 skills with Isabel, Godric and Raelag.

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted August 12, 2015 04:53 PM

When you go to multiplayer -> hot seat -> create a game
and TICK the 8th skills option it is available everywhere in the game (single and multiplayer and campaign) as long as you dont exit the game.

As long as you use the MOD exe and tick the 8th skill option I dont see a reason why it should not be working in campaigns.

When I have time I will try to go through them.
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted August 12, 2015 08:36 PM

I'll try with Markal and Godric in Necro Campaign.

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ldongder
ldongder


Adventuring Hero
posted August 15, 2015 02:46 PM

Hi Magno,

Sorry for posting in the wrong place, this post belongs here.
After I played Necropolis, I found that ultimate sill- Herald of Death in Necromancy of the three the classes is not that strong enough compared with other ultimate skills belonging to other factions.

Herald of Death is not very practical for Necropolis heroes:

because Herald of Death will be much more useful only if hero has skill of diplomacy otherwise most of the time we do not even have any chance to use this skill. And out of three classes, only Death Knight has a merely %8 chance to learn Leadership. Other two classes have no chance to lean leadership. Admittedly this skill does not have extra requirements to get like the other ultimate skills, so it's not as strong  as others. But from the point of faction, each faction should have a similar chance to lean an ultimate skill with approximately same level of power or usefulness.

You have removed the Howl of terror, I feel this is stronger ultimate skill. I still miss this skill very much

And further, can consider to take back the skills you have removed (it's a pity not able to use some of the old skills I like very much), so we have more variation of skill trees: like you have two types of Occultism, one is ordinary and the other is Occultism especially for Warlock. So why can't we create a skill tree alike the Necromancy ?It's a skill tree specially for Necromancer with the Howl of terror in it.

Looking forward to your reply.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 15, 2015 02:52 PM

The problem with Howl of terror is that it is overpowered and hardcoded, although with hex editing it is probably possible to reduce it from -6 to -4. If it is more balanced I would like to bring it back.
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ldongder
ldongder


Adventuring Hero
posted August 15, 2015 03:14 PM
Edited by ldongder at 15:50, 15 Aug 2015.

magnomagus said:
The problem with Howl of terror is that it is overpowered and hardcoded, although with hex editing it is probably possible to reduce it from -6 to -4. If it is more balanced I would like to bring it back.


I am really looking forward to the return of the balanced Howl of terror. And is it easier to enhance the skill of Banshee howl? If so it can directly become the balanced 'Howl of terror'.

But as far as I know if moral lower than -5, actual effect is same as -5, and in the later phase of the game, heroes will be very likely to have some artifacts equipped or skills to boost moral, even in the battle moral can be raised by some spell or abilities.

I think it's not that overpowered. Maybe a little.

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Valvt
Valvt

Tavern Dweller
posted September 06, 2015 01:50 AM

I tried to understand the new skill system and I think I get it now.
My question is, all the special skills that were specific to certain factions are gone, am I right? That like 20 skills down the drain doesn't it ;( ?

Look at the wheel, every faction changes it a bit, that because it adds special faction related skills, and remove others.
http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=520

Another point, in the mod's skill system, each school(Shatter excluded) has 7 skills into it. In the old skill system, there are certainly more then 7, often up to 9.

Thanks for the reply!
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