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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design
Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design This thread is 14 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 14, 2016 06:07 PM

rotating doesn't count as walking or flying.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 14, 2016 06:14 PM

magnomagus said:
rotating doesn't count as walking or flying.


I just tested it, I recalled wrong
Must be like that in one of the games though, maybe MMHVI?

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Dredknight
Dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 15, 2016 09:09 AM

thGryphn said:
magnomagus said:
have you ever seen a flying creature walk?


Do I recall wrong about Griffins for example? Don't they walk when they're attacking an adjacent enemy from a different angle?



You should know best, you are thGryphn
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 15, 2016 04:16 PM

dredknight said:
The player is not obliged to sacrifice 2 skill slots for 2 different shatters.
For example - Fortress magic schools are light and destruction.

Hero can pick Shatter Light and Fire resistance perk. This way he will counter both schools to some extent if he is not sure what the opponent has picked.


Which is fine - my point was that this only seems to be the particular case @ Shatter Light.  And while someone noted that Fire Resistance is particularly strong, I'll note (as I said in my original post) that this is so because there is an unreasonably strong tipping in the Fire tree of Destructive that needs to be addressed for its own sake, and not because Fire Resistance is actually that good.

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 15, 2016 05:42 PM

Gidoza said:
And while someone noted that Fire Resistance is particularly strong, I'll note (as I said in my original post) that this is so because there is an unreasonably strong tipping in the Fire tree of Destructive that needs to be addressed for its own sake, and not because Fire Resistance is actually that good.


Heroes - as a game of differnt ways to attack and different ways to defend against those attacks I think the destruction offense/defense is currently just fine.

From what  the highest threat comes from , should have the most choice of defense picks.

What I mean is that - if certain destruction sub-school has the largest varieties of abilities to make the enemy uncomfortable, the game should offer just as many number of choices to defend against them.

At the end the concrete example - fire can do the most damage of all in on of the most reasonable AOEs of all, it reduces defense BY 50%!!!
Now Combine it with Occultism and MoTW (note: MoTW works for Meteor Shower so I assume it works for fireball as well).
So basically the guy who picks fire for offense has that number of things in a single cast! It is more than reasonable to have numerous defenses to mitigate one or some of those things at certain proportion.
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 16, 2016 01:04 AM

dredknight said:
Gidoza said:
And while someone noted that Fire Resistance is particularly strong, I'll note (as I said in my original post) that this is so because there is an unreasonably strong tipping in the Fire tree of Destructive that needs to be addressed for its own sake, and not because Fire Resistance is actually that good.


Heroes - as a game of differnt ways to attack and different ways to defend against those attacks I think the destruction offense/defense is currently just fine.

From what  the highest threat comes from , should have the most choice of defense picks.

What I mean is that - if certain destruction sub-school has the largest varieties of abilities to make the enemy uncomfortable, the game should offer just as many number of choices to defend against them.

At the end the concrete example - fire can do the most damage of all in on of the most reasonable AOEs of all, it reduces defense BY 50%!!!
Now Combine it with Occultism and MoTW (note: MoTW works for Meteor Shower so I assume it works for fireball as well).
So basically the guy who picks fire for offense has that number of things in a single cast! It is more than reasonable to have numerous defenses to mitigate one or some of those things at certain proportion.



Sure, it's reasonable to have a higher defensibility against something that's stronger - but there's no reason for something stronger to be existing in the first place; this is besides the fact that Shatter Light is only available to some heroes, so you can't even count on it for the effect that you claim is appropriate to deal with Fire.  This is NOT a good system!!!

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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 21, 2016 12:40 AM
Edited by Gidoza at 03:57, 21 Jun 2016.

magnomagus said:
From the looks of this you will like a lot of changes in next version


Well I do like the changes that were made, but I feel like much of what I said was just ignored and passed by...

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 21, 2016 08:28 AM

Gidoza said:

Sure, it's reasonable to have a higher defensibility against something that's stronger - but there's no reason for something stronger to be existing in the first place; this is besides the fact that Shatter Light is only available to some heroes, so you can't even count on it for the effect that you claim is appropriate to deal with Fire.  This is NOT a good system!!!


In the post above yours I explained why it is balanced. Yes it is asymmethrical but this does not make it automatically bad.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 21, 2016 10:14 AM

Quote:
Well I do like the changes that were made, but I feel like much of what I said was just ignored and passed by...


There were easily 10 or more skills changed you wanted changed, also a lot of your proposals were not possible, for a modforum 'requester' you definately got an unusually high payoff.

On H3 forum there are much more requests than here and 99.9% is ignored.
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 21, 2016 12:33 PM
Edited by Gidoza at 12:36, 21 Jun 2016.

magnomagus said:
Quote:
Well I do like the changes that were made, but I feel like much of what I said was just ignored and passed by...


There were easily 10 or more skills changed you wanted changed, also a lot of your proposals were not possible, for a modforum 'requester' you definately got an unusually high payoff.

On H3 forum there are much more requests than here and 99.9% is ignored.


Fair enough, I do apologize for that comment as it was insensitive and missing the boat a little - I guess my hierarchy of values was focused more on skill shuffling than the other things.  Please accept my apology.  :/

Perhaps a clarification:  What's this about being a 'requester'?  Requesting is for stuff like being able to adjust the experience values if desired (which I appreciate very much and use); whereas for Skills I'm participating in the math game, which I think are two different departments - I've never thought of this as making a request so much as making a necessary contribution based on my observations.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 21, 2016 01:17 PM

I was just trying to write 'people who make modding requests on forums' shorter
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 21, 2016 04:09 PM

magnomagus said:
I was just trying to write 'people who make modding requests on forums' shorter


Well, okay.  Please don't by-pass the first half of the last post, though - I actually do apologize and it's important to know whether or not it's accepted.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 21, 2016 04:49 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 16:50, 21 Jun 2016.

Your apology is accepted, but it wasn't really needed, you were just expressing your feeling, I was not offended.
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted June 21, 2016 06:20 PM

Thank you, I appreciate that.      Allright, let me go about another route that might help us both - where do you think you need help, or that work needs to be done, etc...and I can focus my attention there?  

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 21, 2016 10:00 PM

Thanks, but I don't need specific help right now
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted August 25, 2017 10:03 PM
Edited by dredknight at 22:07, 25 Aug 2017.

Magnomagus, just noticed "Forge master" from defense tree and "Protection" from shatter dark both reduce magic damage by 20%. On the backend they are the same skill arent they? They idea is to give  different ways to reduce magic depending on the skill choices you want to do.

Also I cant remember where did you get the "armorer" perk ? I mean what was this skill before? I just got asked and the fact behind that was that there was only 1 reduce all magic damage perk with 15% (Protection). In our case you have boosted it to 20% and use it as both forge master and protection as pointed above.
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Auron1st
Auron1st

Tavern Dweller
posted August 25, 2017 10:42 PM

dredknight said:
Magnomagus, just noticed "Forge master" from defense tree and "Protection" from shatter dark both reduce magic damage by 20%. On the backend they are the same skill arent they? They idea is to give  different ways to reduce magic depending on the skill choices you want to do.

Also I cant remember where did you get the "armorer" perk ? I mean what was this skill before? I just got asked and the fact behind that was that there was only 1 reduce all magic damage perk with 15% (Protection). In our case you have boosted it to 20% and use it as both forge master and protection as pointed above.


IIRC it was meant to be that way - for max magic proof of 55% (15+20 from defense and 20 from shutter dark)... plz don't reduce further, it is barely sufficient with haven vs magic heroes

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 25, 2017 11:50 PM

@dredknight: I'm not sure you are reporting a problem, because I don't see any?

luck of the barbarian was a bugged in toe, it just lowered magic dmg by a number set in the default stats, I set this number to 20% to create an additional skill.
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted August 26, 2017 12:21 AM
Edited by dredknight at 00:27, 26 Aug 2017.

I dont report a problem. This is exactly what I wanted to know.
P.S. I needed it for this answer.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 26, 2017 02:33 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 15:13, 26 Aug 2017.

Nice to see the mod has a good following in russia.

could you add the following points:

-H55 is not based on 3.0 and is also not based on 3.1, it is based on a personal source code with personal bug fixes, you could call it '3.0.6', it has some bugs from 3.0, but also some bugs fixed from 3.1. It doesn't recognize most of the script commands from 3.1, It has 95% widescreen implementation (only the spellbook doesn't work)

-mass spell atb effect cannot be removed completely, a number has to be inserted to replace the byte.

in response to your own post:

Shatters are added to all factions to replace skills that were in TOE completely useless and didn't fit the class from a lore perspective. For example a knight cannot use summoning and destructive properly because it doesn't develop the required spellpower. It also just looks weird. H4 and H3 had generic spellschool defenses as spells, so it is just a minor step to make it skills, nothing new or blasphemy. A knight with destructive magic is blasphemy. A paladin with both light and shatter dark is perfect harmony.

P.S. I don't understand this guys point about retaliation strikes doing 25% damage, according to manual retaliation strikes do 100% damage??
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