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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design
Thread: [MMH5.5] Skill System Design This thread is 14 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT»
dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 08, 2015 01:44 PM

lotihoti said:
1.  Furthermore it will cripple magicians by forcing them to chose a skill they dont need instead of getting something to strengthen their magic or their troops:

To increase the strength of my troops and decrease the strength of enemy troops is the same (my thoughts )


philosophically yes, concretely speaking no.
If it regards PvP it is correct but for PvE is too strong as nothing strengthens the PvE monsters stats and 90% of the battles are PvE.

May be it will be a good idea to add neutral heroes that cannot cast magic. (or at least not before certain level).

[quote=lotihoti]2.Balancewise is completely overpowered for PvE grinding.
That would be true. But PvE grinding isnt hard at all. Concerning you got a Magic school or good shooters. Most of the time you only Need a spell that blockes some tiles to rape shooters

That was in Tote, before the Advanced RMG. I bet when the mod is finished this tactic is not going to work so well due to the mixed stacks.

Quote:
3. Lorewise it doesnt make sense (except necropolis/inferno probably)
To decrease enemies Moral and luck is a very good way to decrease enemies strength. Right now there is no possibility to decrease that (except for howl of Terror, dead mans curse). Would give a lot of variety to the game.


In PvP this will decrease the chance to get morale in PvP if you decrease more than -1 you get free turns because the monsters stop acting. which is very strong.

Quote:
4. There is already enough Magic resistance/protection in game.
Right now i only know very rare Magic protection (decreasing incoming dmg - not resistance) - if you have to use an artifact space you Need to sacrifize other stats.


Yes you sacrifice other status to basically strongly negate certain magic class . Each faction has 2 magic schools so basically it is 50% chance (and sometimes more!) to guess what magic the opponent is having. On the other hand the mages cannot equip - lets say - ethereal shield, which will absorb 50% of the physical damage?.
It is pretty fair as it is now (actually might is favoured but magno is working on it).

Quote:
5. With or without luck Might heroes are stronger and one new tree that removes luck will not do much.
Reducing Luck of 3 Points - with dead mans luck 4 Points, is huge. That would remove a lot of Magic resistence, a lot of Attack pushing. I would definitly choose that skill.


This skill is called "absolute protection" and it already exists as a part of the mechanic.

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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted June 08, 2015 04:03 PM

1.That was in Tote, before the Advanced RMG. I bet when the mod is finished this tactic is not going to work so well due to the mixed stacks.

As Long there is only 1 Shooter, this tactic is working. At least my tests said so

2.In PvP this will decrease the chance to get morale in PvP if you decrease more than -1 you get free turns because the monsters stop acting. which is very strong.
This is true. There we need to get some Balance, cause too much moral is not good for a nice Balance too... (Retribution etc.) At least i think that way ^^

3. This skill is called "absolute protection" and it already exists as a part of the mechanic.
I dont think of absolute protection. Absolute protection doesnt work in luck based magic resistence (as example) or luck of wizard. Otherwise choosing luck and leadership is always the best choice cause the enemy hero cant do something against it (except necros).
It is completly different with Magic: There are shatter skills for all 4 Schools... Thats my thought of it.

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted June 10, 2015 08:52 AM

3. This skill is called "absolute protection" and it already exists as a part of the mechanic.
I dont think of absolute protection. Absolute protection doesnt work in luck based magic resistence (as example) or luck of wizard. Otherwise choosing luck and leadership is always the best choice cause the enemy hero cant do something against it (except necros).
It is completly different with Magic: There are shatter skills for all 4 Schools... Thats my thought of it.



Actually I saw that absolute protection is a part of the dwarven runelore only. it would be nice if something similar was available to mages.. indeed.. But this requires quite a lot of investigation on what it should be and how to change some other skills to be lorewise and balanced as well. Which is going to be hard.
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klosarmicko
klosarmicko


Hired Hero
posted June 12, 2015 08:38 PM

I personaly think that combat skill is totaly useless.
Its only and maybe good for knights.
Who is gonna waste its heros move to link it to some monster or to do normal attack.
At the very least, for all heroes who posses this skill at the start of the game, it should be replaced with offense.
Two times it happend for me that with my main hero I need to go look for that magician to change my skills...
thank you

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 12, 2015 08:50 PM

Uhm.. you forget combat boosts damage on all retaliation strikes in the game by +20%, +preparation perk is easily worth 3 slots alone.

Furthermore hero attack is very useful against late game lvl7 creatures with 60+ defense. Link to high initiative shooter for massive combos with constant pushing back on ATB bar.
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klosarmicko
klosarmicko


Hired Hero
posted June 12, 2015 08:58 PM

mmm good points
but I still think that offense as a start up would be better
I myself play immo maps with thousands of monsters late on and I am "trying to save all the monsters" type of player, so combat isnt my type of skill.
btw gonna try beta now thank youu

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dace
dace

Tavern Dweller
posted July 27, 2015 11:44 AM

magnomagus said:
I recall it was considered an urgent balance issue in multiplayer duel and the fix was well received when the byte was finally found. I could compromise on a softer 10-15% if some don't like it, but you should try it, it doesn't feel like H3.

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=36538&pagenumber=1



Good idea!
I think a little randomness is quiet good for the fun of the game!

Thank you so much for your gerat work

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dace
dace

Tavern Dweller
posted July 28, 2015 11:35 AM

magnomagus said:

Spell System

In MMH5.5 the late game superiority of might heroes will be gone for good, no matter how long the game takes. The game uses much smarter algorithms to calculate the actual bonuses and turn times of light and dark magic spells. This will cause magic heroes to add more defense with endurance spell or give more initiative with the haste spell. Various summoning and destructive spells will also be finetuned to scale better into late game.

-Skill boosting or lowering spells have their bonuses calculated like 4/4/6/8 + 0.2 per Spellpower.

Example: A hero with expert light magic and 15 spellpower will boost defense with endurance by 8 + 15*0.2 = 11

-Slow and Haste boost initiative as: 10%/15%/20%/25% + 0.5% per Spellpower

Example: A hero with expert light magic and 15 spellpower will boost initiative wit haste by 25 + 15 * 0.5 = 32.5%

-Buff and Nerf durations are calculated like 1+0,5* Spellpower instead of 1+1*Spellpower

Spell Balance





What about "confusion" and "mass confusion"? This is one of the more powerful spell in HMM5. I think it should work a bit like "puppet master". What I mean is that the effect of the spell have to be calculate regarding the power of the creature, the number of cratures, and the power of the hero/spellcaster (level of dark magic, spellpower, etc...)

It's really too easy to cast this spell with only expert dark magic on a huge number of archers/creatures... sure you know what I mean...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted July 28, 2015 11:59 AM

@Dace:

The random ATb fix caused critical errors, so it is currently suspended.

In the next version mass confusion will have area effect like vulnerability to make it less overpowered.
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dace
dace

Tavern Dweller
posted July 28, 2015 12:15 PM

magnomagus said:
@Dace:

In the next version mass confusion will have area effect like vulnerability to make it less overpowered.



Nice to read you!

Good point... but still overpowered casting this spell over 100 titans should not be as easy as casting it over 10 centaures!

Thank you again for your great job!

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted July 28, 2015 12:29 PM

That is not a relevant measure since if someone has 100 titans, the enemy will have 2000 centaurs
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted July 28, 2015 02:22 PM

Titans are immune to all mind spells(PM, Frenzy, Confusion).


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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted July 28, 2015 02:32 PM

Not if you have op sandros cloak

Then even undead Units can suffer under puppetmaster/frenzy/confused etc... Sandros cloak is the heaviest artifact ingame, cause undead dont get light Magic...

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dace
dace

Tavern Dweller
posted July 28, 2015 04:20 PM


zmudziak22 said:
Titans are immune to all mind spells(PM, Frenzy, Confusion).




Wrong exemple! Sh*"!

magnomagus said:
That is not a relevant measure since if someone has 100 titans, the enemy will have 2000 centaurs


Depends if you fight against a player or for something on the map!

Have a nice day!

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dace
dace

Tavern Dweller
posted July 31, 2015 12:10 PM

Skillwheel

I'm back with my questions... sorry!

Are you going to make a Skillwheel for HOMM 5.5 like this one:

http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=520

It Would be awesome!



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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted July 31, 2015 12:45 PM

No need it. There ingame manual how skill works and perks you can get in each hero class

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DrOwnage
DrOwnage


Adventuring Hero
posted August 02, 2015 05:31 PM

This mod looks quite interesting and i have some questions about it.
As a pretty experienced H5 Player i noticed that only inferno can get snatch plus warpath (its named pillage i think). Is that true ? Snatch + warpath is extremly powerful and inferno is a strong faction too, maybe not vs sylvan .
Has the random atb bonus been removed ? If yes, that would be great because it ruined so many games.
Is there a new skill wheel or a manual ? I know there's an ingame explanation but that covers not all.

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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted August 02, 2015 06:10 PM

DrOwnage said:

As a pretty experienced H5 Player i noticed that only inferno can get snatch plus warpath (its named pillage i think). Is that true ? Snatch + warpath is extremly powerful and inferno is a strong faction too, maybe not vs sylvan .


Hello Dr0wnage, first you need to gain at least 4-5 levels to pick up those perks.

Second Inferno has penalty on grinding as his troops are meant to die fast (after many games played with inferno - Tote, RPE, BETA1 and BETA2 mods).

Basically snatch + warpath is going to be OP on a race that kick PvE ass (sylvan per your example) but inferno lacks shooters or strong end to end fliers (nightmares and cerberies die too fast) to afford grinding everything he sees every turn. Plus you need skills like Attack -> tactics to fix that even further.

Also having Warpath + snatch makes impossible to get swift gating so this comes as a hit in the fast grinding back too .

good combination will be - warpath + snatch + swift mind (it requires 6-7 points more) + dark magic (puppet or frenzy).

But again this requires some heavy hero development before utilizing the benefits. Until then you may hav grinded half of the map.



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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted August 02, 2015 07:24 PM

If you calculate avg movement gain, warpath is actually weak skill, weaker than basic logistics which gives +250 every day. The branch is attractive because of imp scavengers which combines 2 skills (goblin support+spoils of war) into one.
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DrOwnage
DrOwnage


Adventuring Hero
posted August 05, 2015 08:58 AM

magnomagus said:
If you calculate avg movement gain, warpath is actually weak skill, weaker than basic logistics which gives +250 every day. The branch is attractive because of imp scavengers which combines 2 skills (goblin support+spoils of war) into one.


Sorry guys i was writing about PvP and there warpath + snatch is really strong and nearly everybody tries to take it.
And yes i found out that warpath still exists but it is named differently.

So my last question: Has random atb value been removed ?

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