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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: a novel idea for reviving HoMM8
Thread: a novel idea for reviving HoMM8 This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted April 16, 2020 11:58 PM

In theory I can do all of this in Python, except the graphics, and if the point is to test new unit ideas then an existing engine wouldn't help anyway. The hardest part is integrating it in a way that allows some 1v1 play on the Internets (hotseat is a piece of cake).
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theSilent
theSilent

Tavern Dweller
posted April 19, 2020 03:01 PM

veteran_player said:
The game should be more Hero-centric rather than castle-structure-or-dwelling-centric.


Do you mean that the heroes with certain skills can carry more groups? If so, I agree. However, the game should always focus on STRATEGY instead of heroes or soldiers or dwellings.
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theSilent
theSilent

Tavern Dweller
posted April 19, 2020 03:10 PM

Rimgrabber said:
I've always liked the idea of having alternate upgrades where 1 upgrade is pretty straightforward (scout-assassin) and the other is a bit counter-intuitive and changes the role of the creature somewhat(scout-stalker.) At first glance, the assassin looks much better because it retains the ability to shoot while still having poison and no melee penalty, but upon closer inspection, the stalker is one of the most useful creatures in the game for creeping.

Another example of this is the previously mentioned treants. The ancient treants are a pretty straightforward upgrade that improves upon the base treant's main role, whereas the savage treant at first seems to be a downgrade with its ability to give up the entangling roots, but this ability gives it another role entirely that's better in certain situations.

There's a lot of cool untapped potential here. For example, archers could have 1 upgrade that's their pretty standard marksman upgrade, while having an alternate upgrade that turns them in units for like the scouts but, say, reduces their hero's movement penalty on rough terrain. Maybe black dragons could have an upgrade where they lose their magic immunity but gain a sort of magic mirror effect instead. Stuff like that is just so fun to me.



Yes, every soldier/creature should have two different upgrades, and only one of the two upgrades is allowed in one castle (unlike H5).
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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted April 19, 2020 04:57 PM

theSilent said:
veteran_player said:
The game should be more Hero-centric rather than castle-structure-or-dwelling-centric.


Do you mean that the heroes with certain skills can carry more groups? If so, I agree. However, the game should always focus on STRATEGY instead of heroes or soldiers or dwellings.


Correct!
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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted April 21, 2020 04:32 PM
Edited by veteran_player at 15:55, 29 Apr 2020.

my point being...

The player should have a choice of a variety of different units from different alignments, or neutral and elemental units, under the same command. How about having 8 or 9 troop slots? So that even random creature stacks on the adventure map can join and become part of your army, like the formula of the original HoM&M1, not the useless Diplomacy skill that came later. And not having a cripping morale penalty... further improving on HoM&M5!!
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted April 29, 2020 10:15 PM

>Useless diplomacy skill

...Bruh
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted May 01, 2020 05:12 PM

Hmm... again, my point being...

The game should be primarily an open-ended strategy, with flexible and adaptable heroes, rather than an economics/city building/empire building strategy simulator, like Civilization... The city-building and town-management elements shouldn't be too intertwined with the core game-play element: 1, 2, or 3 freestanding, self-sufficient, and mostly independent heroes and their organic, integral stacks of armies. I would even go as far as to get rid of the basic requirement for a castle to stay in the game. Acquiring, utilizing, and maintaining good troop stacks is a more important element of the core strategic game-play that makes Heroes#^*! fun, than city-building, town-management, resource management, or having a static base of operations..


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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted May 02, 2020 06:33 PM

HoM&M VIII

Overall I think to develop a successful new game, Heroes 8 should be a confluence of HoMM1, HoMM5, and maybe also HoMM6, and not a further development of HoMM3, HoMM4, or HoMM7. Sure, they all have a lot in common, but the HoM&M gaming community shouldn't depend on an arbitrary definition of gaming fun. I think the popular veneration of/for HoM&M3 is more closely connected to the age of the participants than to its quality as a stand-alone game. In that regard, having played both, I actually enjoyed Heroes II a lot more, as a stand-alone product, than Heroes III - in 1999.
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LucPatenaude
LucPatenaude


Famous Hero
Owning all 7 Heroes games
posted May 02, 2020 08:06 PM

@veteran_player: Appreciating re-playability is the true key at loving HoMM

Homm 5: Tribes Of The East is the game you should concentrate at playing to the max.

And, then, Use its RMG feature to enhance your ability to excel at playing every faction available to this title.

Ignoring the capacity of a game to be endlessly re-playable is a full no-brainer(no brains means not having the intelligence to keep having fun at learning all kinds of possibilities such a game like this one can deliver).

The only two things missing in HoMM 7:Trial By Fire(Complete) is the ability to make tiny to humongous sized maps via a RMG and, to include a choice of having the type of World your map is composed of(Islands, continents, the mix of both or, no bodies of water at all).

Heroes 6 was merely a full beta in development for the arrival of HoMM 7.

So...I suggest that you start reading the entire Heroes Community's content of posts before making all kinds of suggestions upon the possible next edition of HoMM, Mr. Tavern Dweller.


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Now, all 7 titles can be played on Windows 10 Home/Pro Editions. Thanks to the good ole' Gog.com people, all the series can be played on any decent multi-core PC.


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dj
dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted May 02, 2020 08:16 PM

I would like to see a HoMM game where things that you have to build and use in the old games would be a standard thing.

For example, a player hires a defending hero, a scouting hero and an attacker hero.

Only that the defending hero who stays a  lot in the castle will be much weaker than an attacker one who fought throughout the map and got leveled up. And even if the defending one goes out to level up, if he doesnt have a town portal, the city is leftwith no heroes to defend, only maybe a lvl 1 urgently hired hero from the tavern.


What if a player could choose a hero to defend the city, a hero who scouts with few creatures (he gets scouting and rogue abilities to become invisible to other opponent heroes) and an attacker hero from the beginning of the map.

And the heroes receive XP based on how long have they been in the game and from the things they do in the game based on their role:

The defender gets time XP + building XP, recruiting XP
The explorer gets time XP + collecting resource XP, exploring XP (he is also the one who has non battle related skills like: estates, scouting etc)
The attacker gets time XP + fighting XP, ocuppying XP, Vising objects XP


And to solutionize the variation of the game, not only make different builds for each type of hero (defender, explorer, attacker), but also give them a different line up with 1 or 2 common creatures:

Attacker: 1.Centaur, 2.Sprite, 3.Wood Elf, 4.Pegasus, 5.War Dancer, 6. Unicorn, 7.Dragon

Explorer: 1.Leprechaun, 2.Dryad, 3. Wood elf, 4.Pegasus, 5.Tiger, 6.Hyppogryph, 7.Phoenix

Defender: 1.Leprechaun, 2.Dwarf, 3.Wood Elf, 4.Satyr, 5.Dendroid, 6.Unicorn,7. Mountain Giant

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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted May 02, 2020 08:52 PM

LucPatenaude said:
Heroes 6 was merely a full beta in development for the arrival of HoMM 7.

So...I suggest that you start reading the entire Heroes Community's content of posts before making all kinds of suggestions upon the possible next edition of HoMM, Mr. Tavern Dweller.




Heroes 6 actually had more developmental muscle behind it and a better reception than Heroes 7. But I appreciate your post anyway!
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted May 02, 2020 08:56 PM

In H6, especially decorations were nice.

One thing at newer HoMM games: you need to rotate the camera a lot. A camera similar to that in H3 or H2 would be nice, but with the possibility to toggle blocked camera to free camera.

Also, in newer HoMMs, you can't get the camera to stay like in H3 or H2, which is a shame. That way things are seen better, usually, blabla...
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted May 03, 2020 02:27 AM

My unpopular opinion about H6 is that the storytelling and characters were actually pretty well done and that the Blood/Tears paths were a good idea implemented poorly. In my ideal Heroes game, something similar to Blood/Tears would be implemented like this:

Say for example you're playing as a cleric. At level 5, you will be prompted to select 1 of 3 abilities besides the usual level up offers. This will determine your subclass, hypothetically Heretic, Chaplain, and Healer. Each of these unlocks a mini skill tree containing 3 skills that will be unlocked at level 5, 15, and 20.

Say if you pick Heretic you forget Light Magic and get all your level-ups spent in that tree refunded, and you learn Dark Magic instead. Maybe at level 15 you get +5 spellpower when casting Dark spells but have your morale lowered by 1 like the Pariah perk in H5. At level 20 you get an "ultimate ability" that would become central to your playstyle.

Obviously that's just a rough draft of what it could look like, but the idea would be you can have something similar from each class. That way each class has a unique playstyle but also doesn't force you to run a certian strategy.
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted May 03, 2020 09:14 AM

How is this different from the system of H4?
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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted May 04, 2020 05:35 PM

HoM&M7 wasn't a good game

It's not about childish nostalgia for Heroes 3! Heroes 2 was better for its time than Heroes 3 - in many aspects. The original HoM&M, which started the franchise - deserves the most merit! It was simpler, yet complex for its time. It was a graphical strategy game unlike any other! HoM&M5 jump-started the franchise, and HoM&M8 - if there ever is one - should also re-invent it! This is what my thread is about!
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted May 05, 2020 03:31 AM

Alon said:
How is this different from the system of H4?


In H4 all classes have access to the same prestige classes, and the prestige classes only have 1 passive ability. This system is more like the Tears/Blood system because each base class has its own unique prestige classes and they can evolve as you level up. It's also independent of how you spend your normal skill points.
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted May 05, 2020 04:59 PM

We need to refresh the formula!

The key to making a good HoM&M VIII would be to innovate! - Starting from the basics... The series is unique in the gaming world, for its depth and complexity. The only other strategy game I have played that possibly surpasses it is: Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri and Alien Crossfire. If you compare that to HoM&M III, the HoMM comes out a distant second, in my book... But HoM&M VIII could be better! - And not just another clone of HoM&M III! So far, in its 25 year/7 installment gaming history, the franchise has stagnated twice... Hitting low points with disappointing releases like HoM&M4 and HoM&M7. The next and possibly final installment should fire-up and re-invigorate the fan-base as much as HoM&M5 did! It should not be crafted for children! - Make it fun for everyone!!!
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted May 07, 2020 12:03 AM

Innovation is a tough line to walk, too little and the game feels like a retread, but too much and it doesn't feel like a continuation. Heroes II, III and V did it well, but IV, VI and VII didn't.

Heroes II gave us secondary skills
Heroes III gave us spell-schools (and thus, spell proficiency), and replaced the Ultimate Artifacts with the Grail.
Heroes V gave us faction secondary skills and perks, and moved us from a hex-based battlefield to a square-based one.

It really one takes one or two big changes to be innovative.

One thing I would like to see for the next game is a bit of a reworking of the economy. Not simplifying as in Heroes VI, but diversifying. Boost the production of non-gold resources by about five (so 2 -> 10 for wood/ore, and 1 -> 5 for crystal/gems/mercury/sulfur), and you can do a lot more with them, such as adding resource requirements for creatures down to tier 4 or 5.

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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted May 07, 2020 04:22 PM

To re-iterate...

For me, Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri was a decisively better strategy game than the popularly/(nostalgically?) beloved Heroes of Might & Magic III.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted May 07, 2020 04:26 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 16:27, 07 May 2020.

veteran_player said:
For me, Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri was a decisively better strategy game than the popularly/(nostalgically?) beloved Heroes of Might & Magic III.


From what point of view? Visual, strategical, feeling, etc.?

And even so, I believe HoMM should be very similar in mechanics to H3. Otherwise, it's not HoMM (as it happened several times).
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