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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: a novel idea for reviving HoMM8
Thread: a novel idea for reviving HoMM8 This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted May 20, 2020 04:52 PM

I still think it should be very similar to H3 and H5, but I agree, the game would need lots of testing, polishing, and all parts of the game to be well thought, before any beta.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted May 21, 2020 06:23 AM

Eh, I agree with veteran_player that some innovation would be nice.

Here's an idea, what about a skill that allows a hero to place roads?

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted May 21, 2020 11:22 AM

Eeehhhhhh maybe? I think that would work best if each faction had a "throwaway" class meant to do side hero stuff though. I think rather than a hero skill it would make more sense to make roads a town building that can connect 2 towns.
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

you lost your internet privileges

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted May 21, 2020 09:47 PM

You could do it the Alpha Centauri way and have, in addition to heroes, things that move like heroes but are workers, and can build roads and claim unguarded resource nodes but not fight and insta-die to an enemy hero. But as in Alpha Centauri and unlike in RTSes, most resource income should come from towns (or permanent resource nodes) so that you don't have to build a ton of workers for macro.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted May 21, 2020 11:42 PM

The road-building thing seems to be quite nice and interesting tho. But it should cost a decent quantity of resources and time.
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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted June 01, 2020 07:28 PM

FirePaladin said:
I still think it should be very similar to H3 and H5, but I agree, the game would need lots of testing, polishing, and all parts of the game to be well thought, before any beta.


Yes, but maybe a further development of HoMM5, with the extra strategic dimension of recruiting more potent unit stacks on the adventure map. That is what my whole idea is about. To expand upon the strategic fun that is copywrited and unique to this series.
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veteran_player
veteran_player


Adventuring Hero
posted June 16, 2020 09:19 PM

Heroes of Might & Magic 3 Gangbang!

This thread has been very fulfilling and rewarding and not just a further development of HoMM3... In a fantasy world, you have to make your own rules - not just follow the popular common line. So, I've adopted the resolution to oppose further Heroes of Might & Magic 3 cronyism, and give you the opportunity to build upon this novel veteran_player idea of mine; without commitments or regrets! By this point, we are no longer children, and so I can no longer console stupid, pretend, teen-age nostalgia for Heroes 3! Times have moved on, and so should we! Enjoy this Christening, associates!
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted June 16, 2020 09:35 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 21:36, 16 Jun 2020.

This is what the devs of King's Bounty 2 say, as well as what Erwin said. The fans abandoned them.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted June 16, 2020 11:08 PM

veteran_player said:
This thread has been very fulfilling and rewarding and not just a further development of HoMM3... In a fantasy world, you have to make your own rules - not just follow the popular common line. So, I've adopted the resolution to oppose further Heroes of Might & Magic 3 cronyism, and give you the opportunity to build upon this novel veteran_player idea of mine; without commitments or regrets! By this point, we are no longer children, and so I can no longer console stupid, pretend, teen-age nostalgia for Heroes 3! Times have moved on, and so should we! Enjoy this Christening, associates!
Okay, so what do you want to start with?

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted June 17, 2020 02:42 AM

Do people want me to do a thread with my proposal for factions and lineups, since so many different people in here do these?
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted June 17, 2020 02:59 AM

Do it. My threads are about what people prefer, tho, so they're something different.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted June 17, 2020 05:53 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there could be room to modify the economic system. Not reducing the number of resources as Heroes 6 did, but actually making the system more diverse. For starters, increase the daily production of non-gold resources to 10 (wood, stone)/5 (rare resources), or even 20/10, which would allow you to use them for so many more things. Also, allow resource trading between allied players at much better rates than trading at the markets normally.

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted June 17, 2020 06:42 AM

MattII said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there could be room to modify the economic system. Not reducing the number of resources as Heroes 6 did, but actually making the system more diverse. For starters, increase the daily production of non-gold resources to 10 (wood, stone)/5 (rare resources), or even 20/10, which would allow you to use them for so many more things. Also, allow resource trading between allied players at much better rates than trading at the markets normally.


Did you see my thread on building up towns?
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted June 17, 2020 07:47 AM

Alon said:
Did you see my thread on building up towns?
Well yes, but you didn't really mention much about the economy, beyond perhaps the Civilization-style per-tile income.

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dj
dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted June 21, 2020 03:42 AM
Edited by dj at 04:13, 21 Jun 2020.

veteran_player said:
The key to making a good HoM&M VIII would be to innovate! - Starting from the basics... The series is unique in the gaming world, for its depth and complexity. The only other strategy game I have played that possibly surpasses it is: Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri and Alien Crossfire. If you compare that to HoM&M III, the HoMM comes out a distant second, in my book... But HoM&M VIII could be better! - And not just another clone of HoM&M III! So far, in its 25 year/7 installment gaming history, the franchise has stagnated twice... Hitting low points with disappointing releases like HoM&M4 and HoM&M7. The next and possibly final installment should fire-up and re-invigorate the fan-base as much as HoM&M5 did! It should not be crafted for children! - Make it fun for everyone!!!


What about focusing on the player rather than on creatures factions etc.

Can this game be coded to become a mix between RTS + Turn based?

I would like to play a Heroes in the style of diablo and have a personalized character inside the game like in World of Warcraft.
I know it s stealing but it s probably what this franchise needs.

Or a mix between HoMM and MM (which is almost the same): selecting a character from a certain alliance/guild (good, evil, neutral), race (human, kreegan, lizardman from h3), gender (male/female) and name. Each option gives access to abilities that infuence greatly the gameplay in a map.

Add time as an important source of experience added to the map interaction experience.

Players gain status from experience (map interaction or time spent in the game):
Human:
Picks between might and magic;
Picks magic school(s): Light, Darkness, Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Energy, Psychic, Metal, Sone, Nature etc. - unlock abilities that influence greatly the gameplay in a map



Player STATUS gained trhoughtout the game:
Example:

Race: HUMAN
Ability (even more than 1): can recruit certain human heroes from the lore (Catherine, Roland) that give access to a set of creatures and other abilities

Magic: MAGE
Ability at lv 1: select a spell school LIGHT
Ability at lv 10: select another spell school (even) LIGHT

Player starts out as 1. and ascends throught the game to another class by skill schema and skill interactions.

1. Monk
Ability: select a guild that gives access to a set of creatures and heroes.
2. Cleric of Erathia
Set of ablities
.
.
X. Radiant
.
.
XX. Angel (if secondary spell school was different than LIGHT then  Valkyr - air school: can recruit bird creatures Griffin, Thunderbird;
Seraphim - fire school: phoenix

Yes, you can become a lizardman angel (having a WoG Bastion like faction), Water elf (commanding underwater marine forces), gnome reaper (commanding undead faction)

The player commands heroes and creatures that are associated with a STATUS.

A very good way to implement time as a resource and make it have sense lore wise and to even give abilities and influence greatly the gameplay of a match is to create a PLAYER CALENDAR.

Player calendar:

Events of days:

Monday: recruit lv 1 (rather then recruit all of them on monday)
Tuesday: recruit lv 2
Wednesday: recruit lv 3
ThrusdayL recruit lv 4
Friday: recruit v 5
Saturday: recruit lv 6
SundayL recruit lv 7
Collect a bit more resource from the mine on the day you captures it.
Events: days of battles (if player captures a town, day will be celebrated each month with rewards) etc.

Events of months: moon positions (and damn lore would be awesome here: buffs for werewolves), Historical celebrations thatlast 1 week etc.


And ultimately make the game a live/network game all the time like dota. The reason why HoMM 3 is successful is because it exists in a simple form. If you want it to be more complex  AND successful, you have to make player experience more complex and keep the gameplay more simply by diving it into more categories.

Gameplay 1: live server that keeps online a warcraft III like (RTS, i mean) world where everything changes on the go (a lot of map interaction and buildings and lore places) - PvP
Gamplay 2: Scenario maps
a) Events that last decades, years (Turn based) that are actually canonical battles, wars - PvP
b) Events that last months, days (RTS) - PvP
c) Events that last hours, minutes like Arenas, final fights (RTS)- Pvp
Gameplay 3: campaign of the heroes and units that you unlock in the live - PvE (Turn based)
Gameplay 4: dungeons - PvE (RTS)
a) Events that last decades, years (Turn based) that are actually canonical battles, wars - PvP
b) Events that last months, days (RTS - maps with heroes in a dota, lol type maps) - PvP
c) Events that last hours, minutes like Arenas, final fights (RTS)- Pvp
Gameplay 5: RMG - PvP (Turn based)


These types of innovations could help the HoMM series.
I dont know if i made myself clear and i dont know how much of this is possible but this is what i see as a next step for this series: explosion of concepts and abilities (in-game) and hard coding.


The question is: How much are we able to make HoMM great again?
Ubisoft had hard coding and still failed.

Oh, and let's not forget about the lore that influences greatly the gameplay/player experience.


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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted June 21, 2020 11:26 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 11:30, 21 Jun 2020.

Ubisoft had Erwin and that doomed the series, even tho they had hard-coding, but all the stuff that was un-HoMM like, awkward animations and visuals and bugs did that. I mean, we shouldn't really expect anything new from Ubisoft for MM.

I think this should be a separate game from MM or HoMM, because if it won't, it would create a pretty great riot among the fans who just wanted to play a similar successor to H3. I mean, that's for sure, since it happens for plenty of such games.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted June 21, 2020 12:45 PM

Tbh a Might and Magic MMO would certainly be a commercial success if done right (so, clearly not by Ubisoft). It could also have a campaign, duel, and classic modes on the side to also appeal to us old farts.
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dj
dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted June 21, 2020 01:30 PM
Edited by dj at 13:36, 21 Jun 2020.

[quote ]

I think this should be a separate game from MM or HoMM, because if it won't, it would create a pretty great riot among the fans who just wanted to play a similar successor to H3. I mean, that's for sure, since it happens for plenty of such games.



That is actually what led the series to the path of death.


HoMM 5 was an upgrade of HoMM 3 (same gameplay formula) but (huge) upgrade on visuals.

MMH6 and 7 stagnated on both sides: same heroes 3 formula, same visuals (ok, maybe better graphs but still not a big change as 2D -> 3D)

The idea that i had above not only would incorporate homm3 formula for veteran players who want gamplay like homm3/homm5 (but i doubt that they wouldnt delve into the rest of the gameplay if done well) and would have new modern (and successful) playstyleS.

I remember someone said in this thread that we should move on from HoMM 3 and he was right. we should start thinking out of the box. Ubi's first and biggest mistake was that conservative mindset.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted June 21, 2020 01:45 PM
Edited by Galaad at 13:50, 21 Jun 2020.

dj said:
HoMM 5 was (huge) upgrade on visuals.


Hard disagree. 3D does not mean upgrade and the art direction lost its orginal charm imo.

Quote:
MMH6 and 7 stagnated on both sides: same heroes 3 formula, same visuals


Did you even play these games? Because neither has the h3 formula. H6 tried some new things but failed at it. H7 (somehow) tried to be conservative but also failed at it.

Quote:
I remember someone said in this thread that we should move on from HoMM 3 and he was right. we should start thinking out of the box. Ubi's first and biggest mistake was that conservative mindset.


Bear in mind thinking outside of the box does not mean make a completely different game that has no ties with what made us fans in the first place either.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted June 21, 2020 01:56 PM

What led the series to death were H6 and H7. Some crap games. H5 was a good successor.

@Galaad

Well, it's not like 3D can't be done right. Take a look at the modern King's Bounty, for example. It has a lot of charm, tbh.
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