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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: HOMM3 Tactics
Thread: HOMM3 Tactics This thread is 71 pages long: 1 10 ... 13 14 15 16 17 ... 20 30 40 50 60 70 71 · «PREV / NEXT»
Plexus22
Plexus22


Known Hero
posted April 19, 2005 12:17 AM

The Tag Along Tactic

Many of you may already use this tactic at some time or other in games. Lately I have found it especially useful.

The "Tag Along" tactic basically consists of a single hero whose job is to follow your main hero wherever he goes and carry creature stacks that your main doesn't need for whatever reason. I'm sure you have all faced the scenario many times where you are running around with a good army and you come across battles that you just know you should not bring your stack of shooters into or your stack of level ones. Well, with your tag along thats not a problem just dump whatever stacks you don't need and maybe pick up a stack or two that you do need and then charge into battle with confidence and an army customized for the particular battle

Also very common for me is many times I will just want to take my level 7's into battle and drop the rest because I know with just level 7's I can win battle with no losses whereas if I bring in any lower level i'm bound to loose some. Another thing too is often I want to free up space in my army for as many single level 1 fodder units as I can get. Anyway, I'm sure you get the point and you may have your own common scenarios.

The "Tag Along" hero as you will discover has many other useful benefits too. He can do just busy work that is critical for your main hero but that you may not want to waste valuable movement on like visiting a conservatory to check it out or visiting caches/stores/stockpiles/wrecked ships etc... that you think may have already been hit but you just dont know. The tag along hero can also visit witch huts to see if its worthy of your main and visit seer huts to get quests etc. Then theres the frustrating scenario where you have the opportunity to recruit highly desireable units into your army but you don't have space.....well not with the "Tag Along" hero.

Good candidates for the "Tag Along" hero is one with logistics or pathfinding or both! (depending on the terrain you are anticipating) and if you can get one with scholar skill that too has its obvious benefits. I would reccommend building the hero up just enough to have expert logistics/pathfinding and maybe expert scholar + wisdome and then your good to go.

One last note: you probably wont find this strategy all that useful in the first week or so because you will be using the majority of your army for most battles and during this time your tag along hero should just be doing general scout work with the other scouts but week 2 and beyond it can make a huge difference

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lkru33
lkru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted April 20, 2005 08:48 PM

Poor man's Town Portal

Quote:

As for returning for spells, if you got TP then use that.

If not..set up a chain of heroes from main to mage guild town. put all troops on 2nd hero and attack a stack of slow creatures with main and retreat. Chain back the units to main or prefered place while you rehire main in mageguild town and he will have all spells. All in one day.


In my small online experience, I have found this to be a very useful tactic, not only to get spells, but to take care of small goals quickly (since speed can make the difference between winning and losing). Lets say you are fighting to level up your hero and it is week 1 day 7.  You complete the fight, get expert earth and can now fight for that relic with week 2 day 1 troops.  Only problem is, you are 5 days travel from your main castle, and the relic is in the other direction from your castle.  No problem!! Use the tactic stated above and achieve that goal the very next day.  Now you are ready to take on major goals (topes, main creature break, etc...) without wasting the extra days for travel.  


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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted April 22, 2005 10:32 PM

random maps are generated acording to some rules too.
jebus cross is one of this templates.in fact it is a text file wich must be inserted in the data file in your h3 directory and renamed as rmg.
you can have only one rmg file so only one template at a time.
you can find all the templates here .Just right ckick on the pictures and download the files into yout comp.
Let us know when you finish so that Angelito can delete offtopic posts.

@Angelito&everyone that cares:
I was wondering..
i know one can have more than 1 template in the same rmg file simply by copy pasting one template over another in that text file and then the random generator would pick one of them

My ideea would be if there is a way to hide the template names(set it as blank) and have a rmg file made out of 4 or more templates.
This way, no one would know which template will be generated until the game is started(not even day 1 but later on i would say late week 1 early week 2).This way people won't be able to use a certain tactic/algorythm, but they will have to adapt more to the map itself.IMHO this is a way to bring randomness back to randoms...
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 22, 2005 11:36 PM

Sure u can tigris, just replace the given name in the first rmg column with "Number 1" or "Number 2" and so on....so no1 would know which template it is..
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted April 27, 2005 05:23 PM
Edited By: tigris on 5 Jul 2005

Quote:
Hm, i used babelfish on the word template, and says something about a form.
So it's some kind of basic layout for a map? :S
Only thing i can make of it..

And yes, i know this is a (grmbl) 'noobie' question.
We all have to learn somehow eh.


Well Munzai all this can be found in some threads around here, of which i particulary recommand Waiting for Midnight.. and
interview with a vampire

But those threads explain the whole thing in a very complex way cos then people tried to understand the smallest details of the RMG file.

I'd say those are descriptions for the template makers.I've taken the liberty to make a short description of the rmg file, but analising only general basics of the rmg file for each player to understand.
Maybe this is the wrong thread to write this in but if it happen to be asked in here so be it

so here it is complete idiot's guide to randoms

First of all do not open the rmg file with word or note pad, open it with excel.This way all the columns will be in the right spot.
Now let's say you decide to open the template called panic

U have to analyze this by columns.

First column it's template name, maker and the restrictions he designed the template to be played with.
For exemple on panic fly/dd it's forbidden from the start.

Next 2 columns are the map sizes that can be generated.Maybe you noticed that sometimes when you create a random map, a message appears:could not create a map that doesn't fit current settings.This means you are eighter playing the wrong size or you put the wrong number of players.
For pamic minimum map size it's 8, wich means M with under and maximum map size is 18 wich means XL without under.This means you'll be able to generate only M with under, L both with and without under and XL without under maps.

Next column:Zone-each map is divided into regions separated by mountains, water, or other terrain obstacle.These regions are called zones.
The next 5 columns defines the zone proprieties.They are grupped under the name of Type.Human start means the zones where the 2 players will start obviously, computer start it's an unused column left in there since the original 3do templates from where the rmg file was extracted.Also treasure and junction columns are unimportant.

Base size defines the size of one zone on the map.When added, these sizes don't have to give a specific number like 100 or something.Those are relative values, meaning that sizes are compared amongst regions.so if a region has size 25, basically it will have double the size of a region with size 12.
Those sizes are quite aproximate and differences appear from map to map.

Next we have 4 restrictions columns that also are unimporant for you as a player and don't really influence the way a map looks like.

After that there are another 5 columns that determine the player towns caracteristics.First ownership:you'll see that the zone ownership matches the town ownership wich is kinda logical right?
So if we said earlier that player 1 owns zone 1, it's normal for him to own the castle in zone 1.

Next column it's minimum towns.Towns basically means castle without fort.So self explanatory there.Town&castle density it's also something not used in randoms nowdays and are left from the original file.

In the neutral towns section there also are 5 columns, similar to those in the player towns section.Only difference is the Towns are of same type column wich means that if in a zone there is more than 1 town you can set them to be different or of the same type.

Next we have town types wich determines wich castles are allowed in each zone.See how Conflux(elemental) has been disabled from zones 1 and 2(player starting zones).

Next sections is about mines(resources) and it's self explanatory.As a player you need to know how many mines you can find in your starting area and in the second&third area you'll control later in the game.This way on a template like panic who has only wood&ore mines in the starting area, you will know you need to get out of there soon and break into the second area where the other resource mines are, so you can build your castle fast.

The mine density is not used in any templates as you can see.Basically all the density columns are used when no explicit values are given in the first place, co then the comp will chose a random number of mines according to the density.This sucks that's why it's better to have a well defined number of mines&castles.
The terrain&monsters columns are self explanatory and don't interess you alot.

Now treasure collumns:These may seem like some useless numbers, but are very important to the template.This is by far the trickiest part of making a template.In short, each treasure related item on the map, has a certain numerical value in here.Starting with a pile of resources and ending with artifacts&dwelling and utopias.Everything it's in these columns.These days people try to ban certain things from the game such as conservatories, dragon hives or high level external dwellings.So a template maker must be carefull with these things.You can see 3 lairs of 3 columns(low, high and density) each.Each lair enables the appearance of a different set of objects on the map.

Next on the list is the connections section.It has 3 columns.First two show the way zones are conected.So if you see in the zone 1 column written 1 and in the zone 2 column 3 it means zome 1 conects with zone 3.As simple as that.The value column sets the guards value between the 2 zones.You can see those are different values, acording to the way the template maker designed tha map.So if he wanted for you to be able to break from the starting zone week 1, he put a small value of 6000 which is about pack lvl 4 critters or horde lvl 2 for exemple.As oposed to that he separates the two players(zone 3 by zone 4) by a massive guard(value 70000) that can mean horde lvl 7 or throng lvl 6, soething like that.
The wide column is also not used and if you put an x ther it's like having a 0 value, so no guards between 2 zones.(the 2 zones form a gigger zones to be more exact)

Next another restriction section that is also unimportant, basically determines the number of players from whom the map it's designed.

Well that about raps it up with the rmg file.It is not that complicated as it seems at first, but out of personal experience i can say that the more you know, the more helpless you become, as details still remain secret even for masters of RMG like Midnight.

Hope this helps someone(if anyone has the patience to read it all  
 
@Revived:since so many new people came to the library lately posting about anything, from personal strategies to therapeutical uses of mercur, i thought i bring this thread back into attention.Hopefully people will refrain to spam in here and will learn something too


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Frank
Frank


Promising
Known Hero
posted August 26, 2005 05:29 AM
Edited By: Frank on 30 Aug 2005

Something you should know about new months...

Black Market post new items.  If there was a golden bow or shackles of war showing week 4 day 7, buy them now if you need them because the next day you'll have an unpleasant surprise.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 26, 2005 12:25 PM

Quote:
usually i get a mine of a resource i dont need, like gem pond for stronghold....


You should think about that statement again i think.


And for all the other "comments" referring to the black market post from Frank, i wanna state this:
Please think about what u write here. This thread is one of the most valuable threads in the library. I wont accept seeing it going down coz of quarrels about what to buy in a black market. Open a new thread and there u can discuss this topic. Here we only discuss "tactics" and not how early i will flagg a gem mine or if i would rather buy an artifact than troops when my enemy is near.
Feel free to open new threads with questions like that and u will get your responses, but keep tis thread at the high level it is right now.

Thanks.

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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted August 26, 2005 06:19 PM
Edited By: Russ on 26 Aug 2005

Quote:
In a full tope there are 5 blacks and 6 golds right?

Now 5 blacks can already kill all your master gremlins so your only hope is to put enough golems/gargoyles that the dragons would be able to do full damage BUT your fodders would not retal.


I tried doing it like 3 weeks ago. First, I tried master gremlins. In all of about 50 combinations I've tried, dragons went for gremlins. Then I tried mages. If I remember what I did correctly - you need about 24 AMs (arch mages) to take full topes with no AM losses (given that you have Neela with decent stats/skills, offense really helps as it makes dragons even more afraid of AMs' retaliation). Now, if I remember correctly, it can be very hard to balance your fodder. Too little or too many = dragons will kill MG (master genies), especially in smaller topes. Your goal is to have at least 1 MG alive, so to be on the safe side you need to take 3 MG stacks with you. But 2 MGs will almost always be enough, since one of black/gold dragon stacks will usually want to block the AMs, thus being unable to kill the MG. The setup is as follows (for full tope):
1 GR (master gremlin), 1 MG
24 AMs, 12-15 gargs (or 5-7 golems), 1 GR
12-15 gargs (or 5-7 golems), 1 MG
round 1: mass haste, AMs move to the top left, 1 or both (if you are lucky) MGs move 1 step below them.
round 2: force field, MGs cast spells on AMs, AMs start their target practise
rounds 3-however long it takes: recast FF and WATCH OUT FOR HASTE RUNNING OUT!!! If it runs out, you are f*ed.

Notes: On the grass Gold dragons will have 17 speed, which means they will move first on round 2, so you will need to rethink the formation a little bit, or avoid grass topes.
Also, red dragons will have 12 speed on subterranean, which means they will attack first on round 1 - rethink the formation, or avoid subterranean topes (not that anyone plays with under, anyways).
+1 speed arty will eliminate those problem as well.
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Vegetarian: Old Indian word for Bad Hunter.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted August 27, 2005 12:54 PM

hi Ross

Russ made me curios about the gremlins tope. I was sure there must be a way to protect the gremlins.I tried lvl 10 orrin with a jebus lvl 2 army(maybe less than normal).
Here is the actual setup.


mind that the current setup is only available for  full tope.


the golds and blacks had their turn and its now the master genies turn.U cast haste.Now comes a difficult moment:both reds and hasted gremlins have speed 11.Gremlins are in reach of the reds who will move first.Surpisingly enough they will target the remaining golems instead of gremlins(the computer thinks it already aihilated them by blocking them with golds)

the following round you are already in position to start mass dragon extermination
It is very important to have an ammo cart cos otherwise you will lose bad (gremlins have but 8 shots)

Spell points wise I tried it with 90 spell points but, there werent enough and I was too lazy to fight restart scenario, search another full tope and fight the fight once again.I reckon 120-130 spell points will be enough to do the job done.Having a dungeon mana vortex on jebus week 2 would make this fight very realistic and possible to be done in a real game.

Hf using this in your games

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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted August 27, 2005 06:00 PM
Edited By: Russ on 27 Aug 2005

Quote:
Russ made me curios about the gremlins tope. I was sure there must be a way to protect the gremlins.I tried lvl 10 orrin with a jebus lvl 2 army(maybe less than normal).

Now... kids, do NOT try this at home. There's like a 1% chance this will actually work. Yes - you can make it work by saving, then adjusting the golem numbers until dragons attack them, but it will NOT work in a real game. You would need a different setup for every different set of stats/skills. And you would need 200+ mana (cuz you won't have orrin with archery arties every time and increasing the number of gremlins will cause the dragons to attack them) I've tried this setup with level 9 Neela (which you get much more often than orrin when playing tower ), stats were: 10/7/6/9, skills were: expert earth, expert air, expert armorer, advanced wisdom, basic scholar. The army numbers were same as tigris'. Gold dragons attacked the golems. Black dragons attacked the gremlins. I tried placing the army slightly differently - grems, genie, golems, golems... This time golds went for golems, blacks went for golems, but reds killed gremlins.
If you do want to take the early topes with tower - use arch mages on week 3 (or week 2 if you have a magi dwell) - their setup is pretty reliable and their special will allow you to do this with a typical amount of mana points on a week 3 might hero. Oh, and you won't need to sacrifise all of your golems either.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted August 27, 2005 07:12 PM
Edited By: tigris on 17 Dec 2005

Quote:
Yes - you can make it work by saving, then adjusting the golem numbers until dragons attack them, but it will NOT work in a real game.


Actually making the map and the few tries i made till i got the result took me 10 minutes or less.IMHO the deal with choosing fodder size(in this case golems)is to find a quantity that would appear "important enough" to the dragons, but you don't want to "scare" them away for fear of retaliation.So you need to choose your quantity in such a way that the golds&blacks would barely kill the stack or ceduce it's number to a few units.

Quote:
You would need a different setup for every different set of stats/skills. And you would need 200+ mana (cuz you won't have orrin with archery arties every time and increasing the number of gremlins will cause the dragons to attack them)

Stats don't affect the way dragons behave.Come to think of it you don't need earth magic at all for this exemple cos the master genies ocupy only one hex so a force field casted without earth magic would protect both gremlins and that MG the same way.I won't argue with you about the use of magi. Your method may work as good or even better.I saw this FF trick in a post of Archie and i found it interesting.It is by all means a theoretical way wich is almost impossible to apply in real multiplayer games(unless ur opponent is very kind with reloads lol ).The interesting part about this trick, and that's the part i was hoping people would apply in their zone games,is that it ROCKS against the map.
The other day i heard Frank on the zone saying he killed 135 behemoths week 2 on BB with 135 gremlins,12 magi and 5 master genies.In my opinion, it's situations like this that are possible and realistic enough to be encountered in a real game.And it'situations like this when using this tricks mean winning a game.Risking all to take a full tope may mean defeat in 99% of the cases and succes in 1% as Russ said, but pulling a stunt like the one Frank did,will always work if you have the guts to try it and the brain to use it.

@edit: always on top

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 28, 2005 11:15 AM

Hey Tigrisfoo
Nice post, could you share with us ignorants how to bring an ammocart into a tope?, I dont know that trick and 8 shots with the mastergremlins really isnt enough.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 28, 2005 01:16 PM

The hero just has to have an ammocart equipped before entering the utopia. This counts like in normal battles as endless shots...with one advantage: The dragons cant destroy it....
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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted August 28, 2005 07:02 PM

Quote:
It is by all means a theoretical way wich is almost impossible to apply in real multiplayer games(unless ur opponent is very kind with reloads lol ).

I wouldn't hesitate do it in a real game if I had expert haste + advanced earth (need at least advanced, or genies will get killed) + both of the required spells. I found that it is quite reliable with rampart (especially if you have Ivor) and tower + archmages, maybe even more reliable with archmages because dragons don't want to mess with that "no melee penalty" Tower and rampart don't have any other way of taking out big topes without severe losses on weeks 2-3.

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nebunel
nebunel

Tavern Dweller
waiting for heroes V
posted August 30, 2005 08:58 PM

Hi guys,

i am really new in this forum (made some stupid posts till now) but i will try to share with u a strategy to defeat any utopia Day 1 week 2 .But its only possible on a rich map and on 100% difficulty.Probably on Jebus Cross template its possible though u need a lot of patience.As u all know dragons have breath attack(2 hex attack) and that might be considered and advantage but also a disadvantage sometimes (im sure it happened to all of u to get your troops killed with your own dragons).This is what i will try and show you: to make dragons in utopias kill each other.There are 2 different situations:

On grass

So u need one hero with some fodder troops.the troops must be one-hex units.

First u have to enter the utopia with this formation

1/4/2/3/5/1 - with this formation u can kill 1 Gold and
             1 Red
Repeat this formation until there are left only 4 reds(4 reds can kill one green ).

Second formation is

1/1/3/2/4 - with this formation u will kill all Gold

Third formation is
1/1/2/3/4 - with this one u kill all Black

And fourth(expensive one)

1/4/1/2/3/5 - with this one u will finally kill all green therefore leaving the utopia with only 4 red green dragons that u can easily beat day 1 week 2 .Whats very important in this fourth formation that after the reds and greens hit u have to defend with the four fodders. Only in the second round u will be able to kill one green dragon.

Subterranean or neutral ground

Here the things are a bit more complicated because the 8 greens not being on their native ground (-1 attack) cant kill one black dragon. But after one entire night and some luck i figured it out .

First formation

1/4/3/2/5/1 - with this formation u kill 1 gold and 1 R
Repeat this formation until there are left only 4 reds

Second formation

1/4/3/2/5 - all gold dead

Third formation

1/1/3/2/4

This is where all the trick is: (im so proud ) the fodders 3,2,4 must be 2 hex units (centaurs,wolf riders).After the 8 dragons hit the blacks the Blacks will be left with about 10-20 HP but with the remaining fodder u make the reds hit the blacks and there it goes...one blackie down .

Fourth formation

1/4/1/2/3/5

again defennd first round attack second round

4 reds left to be killed day 1 week 2.

thats about all.Please excuse my spelling errors as english isnt my native.And if this post is crap feel free to delete it.Thanks.

P.S. Units must be of the same type for more safety.Normally dragons attack the hit points not the numbers so u could be doing it with different units but thats complicated (well not really) so better do it like this.
P.S. For all of those who will say that this is almost impossible to do in normal conditions i already know that but if the map is rich u can at least try it.And u dont need to kill all the dragons its enough to kill some sometimes.

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Im the eternal noob...

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icecream
icecream


Hired Hero
posted October 17, 2005 10:44 PM

heya frank mini here about the secondary skills i choose ivor because he gives me a better start with more elves and sometimes end up lucky with 19 on day 1 should i go for exp archery because thats his spec or offense armour tactics and things i no that log and earth are most important please reply

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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted October 17, 2005 11:36 PM
Edited By: Russ on 18 Oct 2005

Well, if you want Frank to answer this, you may want to read the final tactic thread. And, he did answer it in this thread already
You already have both offense and archery, so what's the dilemma then? You'll eventually be the expert in both. And you won't get to chose between those two skills. Until you have 8 skills, you always get offered 1 of the skils you have (each skill has an equal chance) + a new skill (chosen at random based on the % chance your hero class can learn this skill).
Here is what you usually want to do:
1) Keep gaining the skills you already have until you get earth or log.
2) If one is advanced and the rest are expert and you still don't have log or earth, get the next good skill you are offered.
3) See step 1.
The skill learning % table has been posted somewhere on HC. FYI, Ivor has a 3% chance to have earth magic offered to him every time he gets a random skill choice. This is the same for most might heroes with a few exceptions (such as knights who only have 2% or Death Knights who have 4%). Magic heroes have slightly higher %s.

Edited: Warlocks have less than 10% chance.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted October 18, 2005 05:23 PM

Quote:
The skill learning % table has been posted somewhere on HC. FYI, Ivor has a 3% chance to have earth magic offered to him every time he gets a random skill choice. This is the same for most might heroes with a few exceptions (such as knights who only have 2% or Death Knights who have 4%). Magic heroes have up to 10% (Warlocks).


Sorry but those percentages are all wrong.


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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 18, 2005 06:42 PM

Quote:
Quote:
The skill learning % table has been posted somewhere on HC. FYI, Ivor has a 3% chance to have earth magic offered to him every time he gets a random skill choice. This is the same for most might heroes with a few exceptions (such as knights who only have 2% or Death Knights who have 4%). Magic heroes have up to 10% (Warlocks).


Sorry but those percentages are all wrong.




I remember your skill learning percentage table you posted once here. Would be nice to see it again...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted October 18, 2005 06:43 PM
Edited By: Russ on 18 Oct 2005

Quote:
Sorry but those percentages are all wrong.

Here are 3 sites for you, I am sure you can google more if you wanted to:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:wzq8HdIJyEgJ:home.pinknet.cz/~coyot/homm3/way_play.htm+learning+earth+fire+air+tactics+logistics+sorcery+%22eagle+eye%22+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10&hl=en

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:XsWuf32xyP0J:h3.heroes.net.pl/strategie.htm+learning+earth+fire+air+tactics+logistics+sorcery+%22eagle+eye%22+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10&hl=en

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:gtyAwSjkfScJ:free.ud.pl/~piotr/index.php%3Finc%3Dsecondarys5+learning+earth+fire+air+tactics+logistics+sorcery+%22eagle+eye%22+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10&hl=en

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