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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 25, 2012 05:47 PM |
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Well, someone sitting as a duck in town is the optimal pray to hit&run until he has only towers left. That's why is not a valid strategy.
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Conan_dw
Hired Hero
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posted September 25, 2012 08:11 PM |
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townsittung isnt clever and wont end into a victory at the most times. it only takes a loooot of time to finish the game.
for not playing hour for hour an boring "endgame", u should make the "rule" of no townsitting with ur opponent.
if ur opponent is honourable, he will obey to this rule and all of u have much more time to play another funny partie of h3 instead of play a townsitter endgame.
this is, what i ment with "honour" :-)
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 25, 2012 09:03 PM |
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The problem is too many rules kills the game.
Take for example town sitting, would you say it is never necessary? Because there are several situations where I see no problem with. What if red player decides to attack on day 1 of the week, because he has the advantage? Or if your main get caught with less army when exploring map, fortifying in the nearby town being the only solution?
Less rules there are, more challenging the game may be. Not always fair, I agree: sometimes the other gets bigger advantage, better spells. But the true challenge is to overcome all odds, and not when playing same template again and again 500 times with same 100 rules and same towns and heroes.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Conan_dw
Hired Hero
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posted September 25, 2012 10:19 PM |
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ur principally right (although some rules will increase the fun of the game aditionally to "no fly" and so on), but my problem is not the "unfairness" but the who is wasted trough this.
in most (not all!) townsittinggames the sitter will NOT win. the result will be the same, but all the good time is gone.
this is a waste of time, which is no need for.
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Conan_dw
Hired Hero
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posted September 25, 2012 10:21 PM |
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Quote:
ur principally right (although some rules will increase the fun of the game aditionally to "no fly" and so on), but my problem is not the "unfairness" but the among of time who is wasted trough this.
in most (not all!) townsittinggames the sitter will NOT win. the result will be the same, but all the good time is gone.
this is a waste of time, which is no need for.
Sorry: its the first time i see the lack of an "edit button" here :-), edited my text above.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 25, 2012 10:31 PM |
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A game with dimension door/fly can be very stressing. I still remember those games where the other had them, but I can't remember any of the games I played with a lot of rules, no surprises, they got erased from memory with time. Of course, players who care more about their win/loss ratio will disagree, because no rules game is a bit more unpredictable no matter your skill. But still not 100% luck decided.
Ok, sorry, we hijacked the thread, if Angelito deletes those of tops, there is no problem with me.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 25, 2012 11:04 PM |
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No rules rules
But eventhough you like the game for what it is, there can still be aspects the designers didn't consider. An example of this is an older version of Red Alert. Here, iIRC, the sovjets can get submarines. Submarines are good against navy vessels of the opposing side, however when they merge, the opponents destroyers can take them down.
However, once upon a time, me and a former friend of mine had finished a game where I'd destroyed everything he had, or at least almost everything. We still had around ~30 minutes of playing time, meaning we could begin a new game. However the game had not ended, because he still had submarines, which was the only thing he had left, while I'd a fully operative base.
I had no way of finding his submarines, as I could only see them and attack them when they came over the water, but he decided to just let them stay, without attacking.
We ended up wasting the rest of our playing time, because he refused to admit defeat. Looking back, I don't blame him. We're both 13 years old, winning meant a lot back then, today if someone did the same, I'd forfeit the game and play again.
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Living time backwards
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted September 25, 2012 11:14 PM |
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If I ever find myself in a situation where the other player intentionally stays behind his walls only to prolong the game (never met such player, thankfully), I'll also intentionally gather a huge army + devastating spells only to kill him with little or no losses, even if it takes an extra month or so. A good humiliation forces most people to smarten up. 
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Evolution
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 26, 2012 02:46 AM |
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Got the idea about defensive players!
How about the utopia question...
If on a random map each player has an utopia, the one who gets a better utopia wins?
Or
The one who has an utopia wins?(sometimes that happens too)
Or
The one who has the utopia much closer wins?
How do really good players deal with a big disadvantage and are able to to still win the game?
I don't know many good players but it seems like Maretti is one of the best. What would you(he) do if you are playing a random map and the other player(lets say a decent player but still worse) has the only utopia( which obviously you don't even realize in the beginning. The game is pretty much lost,or isn't it?
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted September 26, 2012 07:58 AM |
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It is not easy, but i beat many people who only had a Utopia.
First of all you cant just go in & knock out a Tope.
Plus ya got to see how tough a tope is.
Since Dragons are vulnerable to most magic, you cant just go in there in the 2nd week to kill them.
Earth magic helps with Ress.
The other team will still be gaining experience,resources & gold.
Strategy can help you win.
Chain your heroes helps, but make sure all your heroes has a fast creature only in their party for faster movements.
Utopia can hurt ya because even a weak tope can get you spell books.
Usually the tougher topes gets you big stat improvements like judgement sword etc.
Alot pf gambles but basically explore as much as possible.
Remember to get 8 heroes when ya can.
Explore everywhere.
Remember it is random. i guess it depends on if it is a template.
The final battle tells all & it takes strategy to win.
I beat good players with half an army.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Conan_dw
Hired Hero
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posted September 26, 2012 07:59 AM |
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sure an utop is a big bang.
if 2 players with equal skill play an equal game in quality, it is one of the things, which could decide the game. thats fact.
but there are also other options on many maps like hives, cons, dwells, double builds, relicts in treasure area and many more. and most people dont play such often agaisnt similar skilled people :-) and dont forget the playstyle of the players!
but ur right, the utops often enough are the gamebreaker.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 26, 2012 09:21 AM |
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About rules and their backside:
From my record, I played once a 2vs2 game, opponents were Pandora and Yawacko, her husband. Map had a lot of weak points, closed areas, so luck made that Pandora got from water survivors helm +6 all and shield +4 all. She couldn't keep for herself and she keeps telling us the game is done, prepare to give up, etc etc.
From that point, I combined both armies, mine and ally, broke the guards and killed them both before they could level enough.
Morality: I was accused of cheap play because combining armies in 2vs2 was not considered "honorable". Yeah, giving up to luck factor is certainly more honorable. I recall that game because my reputation was destroyed 
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Era II mods and utilities
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted September 26, 2012 09:58 AM |
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Quote:
From that point, I combined both armies, mine and ally, broke the guards and killed them both before they could level enough.
Seems like a pretty solid strategy to me. If one gets angry of such a move, he shouldn't play. In my opinion. If my opponents would do that, I'd do it as well. Although I've never played online so who am I to say
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 26, 2012 02:53 PM |
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Quote:
From that point, I combined both armies, mine and ally, broke the guards and killed them both before they could level enough.
That's actually quite brilliant.
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Living time backwards
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 26, 2012 05:01 PM |
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I am a former vet. Combining army seems not honourable to me too. It is like if you happen to have the same town type , you and ally, from day one you know you have a gigantic advantage.
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The_Horn
Hired Hero
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posted September 26, 2012 05:01 PM |
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Quote:
About rules and their backside:
From my record, I played once a 2vs2 game, opponents were Pandora and Yawacko, her husband. Map had a lot of weak points, closed areas, so luck made that Pandora got from water survivors helm +6 all and shield +4 all. She couldn't keep for herself and she keeps telling us the game is done, prepare to give up, etc etc.
From that point, I combined both armies, mine and ally, broke the guards and killed them both before they could level enough.
Morality: I was accused of cheap play because combining armies in 2vs2 was not considered "honorable". Yeah, giving up to luck factor is certainly more honorable. I recall that game because my reputation was destroyed
piont taken: women can't keep their mouth shut!  
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 26, 2012 05:16 PM |
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@The castrated, this is not true. If you played ToH 2vs2 maps, and I know you did, you recall they were very scarce in resources, therefore if randomly you got same town as ally, it was really hard to build everything, as same resources were required. In fact, the best pattern was when towns are different so you could trade with ally.
About honorable: so we have a situation where the luck factor decides that one player gains 40 levels in stats because relics. I see no way to win against that if you play solo and ignore your ally army.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 26, 2012 06:43 PM |
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It depended on the map then. Just on this game, and not of salamander as a person. On cross cross I could build everything when using the map as 1v1 Even for castle and tower.
In future game rules should be more thoroughly discussed.
BTW I forgot if town portal could tp to ally castle? If so it would have a bigger advantage.
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ShoothersInc
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 07, 2012 11:41 PM |
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Oh those Master Skeletons
Never tried this one to the end.
The necro part is a must, use it allways. The Iona part I imagined right know.
It is a Strategic option and is not for small maps, Large at least. You will need a lot of resources: hill fort, altar of transformation, pendant of free will and to have this options on
> Artifact enhancements and Universal Creature upgrade.
For me, I allways find easy to get the necessary artifacts because I allways play with the option "1 artifact per level" on.
It's not the same with the other two resources, it will dependend a lot on the map maker preferences (a lot of objects or not, wog objects or just objects that are supose to sometimes turn into WoG Objects)
First thing: with this options on, necromancers really work very well as second hand heros of another town. I call them providers. I use them for both assemble tremendous armys and to finance them.
If neutral stacks are few and not to big a necromancer can give you a tremendous advantage, because you can use him to multiply your army at lower levels and use the emblems of cognaissance (don't forget that both the stoic watchman and the bird of perception can be upgraded to emblems at an artificier and this a very well spent money and visit) to get rich.
If neutral stacks are frequent or have been customized to large numbers, my friend, your enemys will be so ...d they will acuse you of cheating. So, assuming you are playing for Tower but, by some myracle, have a necromancer (for me it is simple, I open the cenario and gave me Vidomina from start...)
First of all my friend, if you can get a necromancer on a big map forget all other secund hero, this one is a priority. This one as the innerit right to eat azure dragons for breakfast specially if it is Vidonima, Isra, Tamika or the dead Haart and you allready have access to the resources.
Then, forget the cloak. If you can assemble it use it to get some dozens of liches, they are a much more appropriate unit then the magi, so take them out the moment you have both enough liches and knowledge to do it without a tremendous loss to army power. If you can find a snack/bar make them a snack. Now. With this resources our objective will be to make really a lot of skeletons.
If you have access to just one altar of transformation per week the process is much slower because you will have to use it several times.
If a powerfull necro-hero with really a lot of knowlegde can have access to two altars of transformation and an hill fort in between, on the last day of the week and has with him the Pendant and some emblems of cognaissance this works as hell itself.
So 1. colect really a lot of skeletons
2. use the altar to transform them into gremlins
3. upgrade the gremlins to Santa
4. retransform the Santa to tower / iron golems!!!
5. now on the seventh day use the pendant to upgrade them.
6. don't forget to pass all emblems of cognaissance to your necro-hero, with it's hability even if you don't have the Surcoat of Counter Poisse you will get money enough to upgrade your new creatures.
You now have what I call level 5 ectoplasma (with the Gold Golems it's not so flagrant but diamond golems really look like something to transform on other thing...) can transform it into liches and all the penalty your necromancer as been carrying as now a return, much more then the double of liches, or you can transform them to other stuff.
The cenario: imagine that your first hero was Yona. Now she is as powerfull as she could turn to with all the level 8 you could buy to her, with your provider tricks and the creatures that had join her army cause of Diplomacy skill (I allways look for it).
So transform the gold golems to tower, again, genies (I usually wait for the diamond golems to transform them to efreets or nagas) but today we will gonna try another trick.
Now that you have the Master Genies, supose you also have the DragonHeart. When you attack the enemys your Master Genies will allways go frist and the summom dragons will follow, this his true even for azures, as they are summom on the Genies turn. So imediatly try to target the summom dragon.
If you sucessed you are 100% sure it will be a benefical level 4 spell. I think the options are limited to: fire shield, counterstrike, frenzy, slayer and prayer.
And to end this trip let me put at the door of that famigerous Cragaquito with his 40 of attack.
You stop in front of his capital, he refugees inside the town, in despair put the magic plains at the door cause he correctly expects you are much more powerfull then him in magic skills and this will reduce your advantage.
Now, you attack and the MGs offer prayer to the summonned red dragons. Every single unit including your commander gets it. Next turn, the other genies are allready inside the castke and you try again. Counterstrike... If you are hable to do this to a veteran every body will call you a cheater... and I'm. But how the hell do I know this if not for trying?
So, strategy. To think in advance, to plan, to know the potencial of your resources, the will (Your Will), this are things computer can't compare to you. But that F...mous hero can, as can the map maker or the rules of the tournament.
So don't trust this to much: if you don't find the altars quickly, someone may have disabled them and in that case, if the enhancement artifacts is on you can still use the necromancer as provider, he will allways be able to raize enough troops to be the one who carrys all (until you have more then five) the Emblems of cognaissance, but will lose almost all of his military significanse.
Except, I don't think that, even in tournaments, the Cloack is often disabled and, with a well developed necromancer it will be usefull even when the cenario is becamming more and more empty.
With a good management, the money the necropmancer earness you will be more then enough for you to upgrade the cloud castle (you know you can build hided structures in a town, namely increase dwelling production or income, yes?) over and over and in the first day of the week buy all the Titans and even some Lords of Thunder, if you allready have any of his dwellings.
This is all folks.
Thanks for your attention,
Shoothersinc
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ShoothersInc
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 07, 2012 11:49 PM |
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Artificier X Altar of Sacrifice
As you probably know you can upgrade a good or neutral hero by sacrificing artifacts on the Altar of Sacrifice. If you have the 1 artifact per level option on, this works really well for secund heros. You arrive at with a few useless artifacts on a level one hero, sacrifice 1 and immediatly recive another, sacrifice this one another level, two more, another but so close another will be more then enough. I think that at this moment you already reciving level 2 artifacts.
And now it's time to pay attention to something.
Ok, you know where to find an Altar of Sacrifice, but do you also know where to find an Artificier?
Why the association? for me it as one name (Barb...) but there are many other combined artifacts. Most of the time your litle hero will benefit more of an Armor of the Dammend then two or three levels, even if you had saved and loaded and already know you will get Earth Magic next level and upgrade it the next*) I would stop and assemble the artifact.
So it can be really dificult but try to keep track of your artifacts and possible combinations.
Remember the artificier only upgrade's or change's one artifact, will never downgraded it. But if have the Rib Cage, the Centaur's Axe and the Skull Helmet do you feel that the Great Gnoll Flail is an upgrade of the Shield of the YDead?
On the other hand, if your main hero becomes the man of the hour you can be drived to a situation where you have to spend days with no artifact assembled, just to upgrade the Armor to the Axe.
And don't forget that there are other artifacts who can be combined and don't use or don't use just the usual.
See U
Shoothers
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