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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Sylvan Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Sylvan Faction [ This thread is 28 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ]
Valeriy Online
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted April 21, 2006 01:08 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 22:02, 08 Oct 2007.

Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Sylvan Faction

This thread is for discussing the strategy for playing Sylvan in Heroes 5.

To discuss Sylvan heroes in duel mode, go to Rangers in Duels topic.

Info at AOH: Heroes | Buildings | Creatures | Growth Chart | Skills | Specialties

Strategy Thread Group: Haven | Inferno | Necropolis | Dungeon | Sylvan | Academy | Fortress | Stronghold
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Gom_Jabbar
Gom_Jabbar


Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
posted June 04, 2006 02:07 AM

Rampart changed a lot since HOMM3, they are now called Sylvan, the centaurs and dwarfs are now gone making way to the sprites and druids. All in all, lets see what they are made of:

Level 1

    Pixie
good parts:
-good initiative and speed
-no enemy retaliation
-spray attack
-flyer(good for obstacle exploitation)
bad parts:
-low growth rate
-low attack and defense
conclusion:
-decent level 1 creature, but the upgraded version is far better;
    Sprite
good parts:
-good initiative and speed
-fixed damage
-no enemy retaliation
-spray attack
-flyer(good for obstacle exploitation)
-caster (cleansing may always come in hand)
bad parts:
-low growth rate
-low defense
conclusion:
-the great initiative and speed combined with the "no retaliation" and "spray attack" abilities makes it a good attack creature especially against other level 1 creatures; maybe a slight increase in growth was necessary.

Level 2

    Blade Dancer
good parts:
-good initiative and speed
-good damage
bad parts:
-low growth rate
-low defense
-relatively low hp
-lack of abilities
conclusion:
-an overall week creature, and a must for upgrade;
    War Dancer
good parts:
-good initiative and speed
-good damage
-war dance combo
bad parts:
-low growth rate
-relatively low hp
conclusion:
- a very good upgrade, great to be put close to as many enemies as possible for the "war dance"; again a slight increase in growth, and hp for the upgraded version, was necessary.

Level 3

    Hunter
good parts:
-good initiative
-good damage
-great number of shots
-double shot
bad parts:
-realatively low growth rate
-very low defense
-low hp
conclusion:
- a very good shooter, the "double shot" ability makes him deal a lot of damage, the great number of shots makes it last on the battlefield, but he very low defense combined with the low hp makes it a very vulnerable unit, that needs a lot of protection;
    Master Hunter
good parts:
-good initiative
-good damage
-very good defense increase
-great number of shots
-double shot
-warding arrows
bad parts:
-realatively low growth rate
-low hp
conclusion:
- not very many changes here, but for the great defense increase; great damage dealer, that can be also (with a bit of luck) used to lower the initiative of high initiative enemy creatures.

Level 4

    Druid
good parts:
-good damage
-good defense
-good spells
-good hp
bad parts:
-???
conclusion:
-an overall good shooter, the good hp makes it last in melee combat, doesnt have too may shots but lightning bolt compensates it;
    Druid Elder
good parts:
-great damage
-great attack
-good defense
-good number of shots
-increased spells
bad parts:
-slight decrease in hp(-1 hp)
conclusion:  
-the huge damage and attack increase makes it a force to be feared; also the spells got better and so did the number of shots, thus making it an excellent shooter and an upgrade to be made as soon as possible.

Level 5

    Unicorn
good parts:
-good damage
-good initiative and speed
-good hp
-aura of magic resistance
bad parts:
-modest atttack and defense for a melee unit
conclusion:
-a much needed melee unit, quite versatile due to the good initiative and speed; and i guess the aura of magic resistance might come in handy once in a while;
    Silver Unicorn
good parts:
-good attack and defense
-good initiative and speed
-good hp
-aura of magic resistance
-blinding attack
bad parts:
-no change in damage
conclusion:
-the blinding attack is always helpfull, and overall only changes that makes it last longer in melee combat.

Level

    Treant
good parts:
-great defense
-great hp
-decent speed
-entagling roots
bad parts:
-low attack
-very low damage
-very low initiative
conclusion:
-a very good unit for the defence of shooters, entagling roots pining down all enemy units that attacks it;
    Ancient Treant
good parts:
-great defense
-great hp
-decent speed
-entagling roots
-take roots
bad parts:
-low attack
-very low damage
-very low initiative
conclusion:
-a unit made solely for the defense of ranged units, especially now with the take roots ability; and btw... if anyone knows what's with the "turboboost" thing i'd be gratefull to know.

Level 7

    Green Dragon
good parts:
-good attack
-good initiative and speed
-good hp
-acid breath
bad parts:
-a bit low damage
conclusion:
-dragons are dragons... not much to be said here, even if the green dragon is a medium level 7
    Emerald Dragon
good parts:
-great initiative and speed
-acid breath
-immunity to earth
bad parts:
-preety low damage and hp
conclusion:
-the high initiative and speed are perfect for attacking first and killing as many enemies as possible in the begining; the immunity to earth is not much but at least it protects you from those devastating implosion and meteor shower; overall a medium level 7.
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neoexdeath
neoexdeath


Adventuring Hero
posted June 04, 2006 08:11 AM

Great post, thanks!

As for the TurboBoost ability it seems to be a joke, as I didn't see it in treant's ability list in the game.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted June 04, 2006 08:57 AM

Emerald dragons need bless.. badly.. without it they are rather sucky, despite their high initiative - mediocre stats and no good specials.

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Gom_Jabbar
Gom_Jabbar


Promising
Famous Hero
Revealer of Truth
posted June 04, 2006 11:36 AM

Quote:
Emerald dragons need bless.. badly.. without it they are rather sucky, despite their high initiative - mediocre stats and no good specials.

I totaly agree. Bless would be indeed a.... blessing for them
Seriously though, they are rather week compared to a level 7 creature but the greeat initiative and speed make them act more often then other creatures, and if you use some good spells on them(like bless) they can do a lot of damage.
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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Famous Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted June 04, 2006 03:17 PM
Edited by TDL at 15:51, 04 Jun 2006.

TDL's Rating

I have always been a fan of the nature- and elven-oriented factions, thus no difference in H5. I really was looking forward to playing this faction when I saw what creatures are going to be included and what... music... it is going to have. Now, after playing and developing some sort of tactics for myself, I decided to draw a preliminary conclusion about the town in 1.0 version.

NOTE: Not much of a multiplayer fan, so I draw my conclusions when playing single player, regardless of difficulty.

P.S. Oops, I did not notice that Gom has already made something similar. Yet, I think each of us have our own lists and I hope they won't be extremely similar.

CREATURES

Sylvan, if rating their line-up, is quite a mediocre town, yet with initiative that only dungeon (and not always) can compete with. Great initiative ratings allow them to move before others, yet their movement range makes them unable to strike enemy targets on turn 1. Despite treants, who tend to suck with both their initiative and speed, the town remains one of the fastest attackers in H5.

As for other drawbacks, I find the number of hit points and growth a bit disappointing. Most units tend to lose at least a few critters per combat as low hp forbids them to remain unharmed.

When rating creatures one by one, it is hard to tell what best can come of them.

Pixies and sprites, due to their number of useful abilities - flying, "cerberosity" (no retal + spray attack) - and their quickness and mobility are above the average level 1 creature rating. Yet, having the sprites in the army makes you sure you have a "bait" for enemy shooters and casters, as computer-controlled creatures tend to take them out first.

Blade and war dancers may even top the list of best second level units. Even though, their growth is low and their... wuss HP quantity makes them kinda' lame, their initiative and their damage cover up the expenses. Having Gilraen as your hero also helps a lot, as he tends to bring quite a lot of them on day 1, and having the upgraded version on day 2 makes them even better (and when I think of fighting two large creatures at once, having them near and striking them both at once, makes me definitely smile).

The shooters of Sylvan, hunter brothers, surely make to the top of level 3. Even though they are easy to take out due to their low HP rating, warding arrow and double shot makes up for it. Combining the luck skill with them does wonders, and after a long game having the Nature's Luck bestowed upon them make them superb overall. I find it pleasant to have Wyngaal sometimes and placing unis in front of archers to surround them with their "aura".

Druids and elder druids are again not to be underrated. Especially when having them upgraded, even though they lose 1 hit point. Their stats are great, lightning bolt does not bother either, especially when having a low amount of them and striking slow enemy units. However, building mage guild level 1 and spending 2k makes it an "ouch!" to build them on week 1, unless you definitely want to give up having a six unis on week 2, day 1, if not more in case you select the Uni Maiden.

Unis, on the other hand, can be rated quite mediocre. Their damage is high, skills are mediocre, yet the unupgraded version sucks. The upgrade version, on the contrary, is superb, but spending 6k two upgrade them is painful, especially when playing heroic. A huge HP increase, blinding attack, once again, the aura makes them good overall, especially, when you want to boost the magic resistance of emerald dragons who lack it.

Treants... treants... treants... And why did the Nival have to make them so crappy... I mean appearance, not themselves Of course, they have drawbacks first having a weak attack rating and second being unable to deal much damage, because of the low dmg rating, but their defence and HP amount which outnumbers Titans (180) and Speccies (160). Defending booosts their defence even more, thus making them harder to overcome and having defence higher than all seventh level units. And as for the turbo- and mega- boosts, I simply do not know. They are no longer present in the original version as it seems, yet the demo left some holes, as I still see they are moving extremely fast. Oh, and the enraged ability. Another benefit.

Dracos are... dracos, nothing more, nothing less. Nival chose to make them implosion fodder no more it seems, but having Sinitar, his empowered spells, and a meteor shower, or simply having the Mark of the Wizard disintegrates the dragons into dust. However, i should not underrate them, as they themselves are nice to have in the army - 14 initiative, ability to tie up enemy shooters instantly, not to mention grim raiders or paladins makes them rather useful. Yet, the unit is unable to top lvl 7 best units due to their low damage and mediocre HP. Nevertheless, the unupgraded version may top the unupgraded level 7 creatures, as the skills are high, as are the HP. Just don't involve into a fight with a puppet master as it will make some trouble for you, but place next to unis and you are most likely protected. NOTE: I found you guys saying that it needs a blessing. Get the Unicorn Maiden hero with the master of abjuration ability, get lucky with mage guild and cast divine strength - no more troubles with damage, most likely.

Overall, the creature line-up is good, far better than necro for example The growth diminishes their greatness though, as does the cost of emerald dragons, but there is much to offer aside from that.

AVENGER

Ahem... That is a thing I am not yet fond of. I still do not find uber-use of it, yet sometimes having dozens of armies scattered across the map with the favored unit is nice. The abilities it provides are awesome, though. Never tried imbuing your arrow with meteor shower? (dunno if it is a bug, but i can do this) Or raining arrows over the hated units? OR having luck on your attacks forever with Nature's Luck? That is worth trying. NOTE: Nature's Luck is one of the top abilities that can be reached in the game. Not much use in multiplayer, as you will never achieve it there, but nice to have when playing a very big map.

HEROES

Definitely not for the magic lovers or uber-tacticians that hate blitzkrieg combat. Two of them have magic skills as starting and only one has a specialty connected to it, which sucks anyway. Another drawback - and as for now I find the worst is that only FOUR heroes may achieve Nature's Luck. The best hero (for me) is yet among those four.

OVERALL

Might as well update this further on, when the patch is released, but as for now, I rate the town a decent 8.2 out of 10 (I would rate it a 8.9, but growth and costs are a drawback I hate).
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Reality is just a warped placeholder for (our) imagination.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted June 27, 2006 04:18 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 09:45, 28 Apr 2007.

ON AVENGER

A lot has been written about it in this thread.

Remember that you can check your opponents’ alignments in your Tavern as early as day one.

If there are no neutrals which you want, you might find them exploring Crypts, Abandoned Mines, Wrecked Galleys, Vaults of the Mages, Dragon Utopias, Military Posts and Sphinxes.

Not only do Rangers’ troops have a 40-60% chance to deal double damage to the favored enemies, but also the heroes themselves inflict increased damage.

The damage dealt by heroes depends on their level and the level of the targeted creatures. In addition, the damage can be increased by the Ranger’s racial skills.

According to the description, the Ranger deals 3 times his or her level damage to his favored enemies (Rain of Arrows or a single shot), which is somewhat misleading. Needless to say, a level 15 hero does not deal 3x15=45 damage, but he does NOT inflict 3 times his current damage either. Actually, he gains 3 virtual levels when attacking his favored enemies, i.e. as if he was level 18.

Imbue Arrow does not deal additional damage aside from the spell damage itself.

Deadeye Shot grants double damage to the damage done to favored enemies but targets a single stack. On the other hand, it always kills at least one creature, regardless of its health.

(For comparison, the same hero deals 32 damage with Fist of Wrath or 56 with Fireball and Spellpower 3.)

Imbue Arrow is a good ability if paired with Destructive Magic and mass spells. Imbue your rain of arrows with Meteor Shower or Implosion and enjoy the fireworks.




Sadly, you cannot imbue Armageddon, as it doesn’t target specific creatures. Similarly, you cannot imbue Mass Slow, Mass Weakness and Mass Suffering. These spells affect ALL of the opponent's creatures. When you use Imbue Arrow, you can imbue only the spells that target a single stack or a limited area. Thus you can imbue Lightning or Meteor Shower, but not Mass Slow or Armageddon. You can imbue Mass Vulnerability and Mass Cleansing, as those affect only limited areas. Unfortunately, one of Rangers’ weakest points is they have a very low chance of being offered Dark Magic.

Nevertheless, don’t forget that the spells drain your mana. If you are trying to shoot your three favored enemies but have enough spell points only for two spells, the third one is simply not cast. Imbue Ballista drains the mana as well.

It is important to note that Imbue Arrow only works with Deadeye Shot, Rain of Arrows, and Imbue Ballista. Otherwise, the spell is not cast when you attack. Strangely, you can obtain Imbue Arrow before its requirements.

Finally, keep in mind Rain of Arrows hits only your favored enemies (not other creatures) – but it hits them all. In other words, the Ranger can shoot from 1 to 7 arrows at the opponent’s army.


STRATEGY


Like they always have, the Elves depend on wood. Even on Heroic, gold is not an issue (you start with 10,000).

The Heroes 3 veterans will surely miss the Grand Elves – due to the town points, in Heroes 5 you cannot get Master Hunters on day 2 anymore. My suggestion for the building order would be: Tavern, Faerie Trees, Battledance Terrace, Mage Guild 1, Town Hall or Faerie Wood and Hunters Cabin in week one. That means 25 wood, 15 more than you start with!

On day one hire another hero – in most cases you want to combine Sylvan armies, although there are exceptions. For example, Haven’s Dougal starts with 20+ Archers and an Ammo Cart. On the other hand, if you have to fight those annoying Assassins on day one, remember that the undead are immune to Poison. Not to mention Academy’s Havez with 60+ Gremlins and all three War Machines (saves up to 6750 gold) etc.

Take gold from treasure chests and recruit as many Hunters and Dancers as possible and you are up to a quick start.

         
fighting hordes of Zombies with a single Sprite is possible day 1 against AI - just stick to the corners while the hero deals all the damage

If you are defending or attacking a Sylvan, keep in mind this town has a unique kind of defense. If you have built Citadel, you will get a moat with a chance to entangle the attacker’s stacks.

The moat neither hurts nor entangles the defender’s troops. The damage of the moat is fixed (hero’s skills and creature’s abilities don’t help) and equals 4.475 x town level (e.g. the moat of a level 20 town deals 89 damage). Arcane Armor spell absorbs part of the damage, but spells such as Endurance don’t reduce it.

The moat entangles the attacker for five rounds and the effect may renew afterwards. The entangled stack gets damaged if it waits or defends in the moat. If the stack attacks (melee or ranged), it doesn’t get hurt. If the stack tries to move in order to attack through the moat, it gets entangled and doesn’t do any damage, even if the opponent is adjacent.

Animated or resurrected dead units are not automatically entangled even if they reappear in the moat.

Finally, you should know the moat’s Entangling Roots are not the same as the Treant’s ability. The hero or Sprites can try to cleanse the effect; Unicorns are able to resist it, while Black Dragons never get entangled.
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted June 27, 2006 04:40 PM

sylvan = hunters and druids. Other units are nothing THAT special, but those two dish out insane damage, matching level 5/6 units. ;x

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Andmcmuffin2
Andmcmuffin2


Hired Hero
In need of Undead Avatar
posted June 27, 2006 04:49 PM

In response to what Doomforge said- AMEN!
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The wraith is reserved?!?! NOOOO I'M NOT GOING TO BE PINK AND UNDEAD!

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Iris
Iris


Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
posted June 29, 2006 04:35 PM

Vlaad, question: can you imbue mass spells?

Say there is one favorite enemy in my opponent's army, and I have Dark Magic and Master of Mind, can I imbue mass Slow and slow all their creatures?  

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BigBadVoodoo
BigBadVoodoo


A poster
posted June 29, 2006 04:50 PM

Sylvan is a very good town... very versatile, and VERY strong 2nd/3rd/4th tier units (up there with the best in the game)

Treants special ability could become useful in destroying neutrals... (split them up, entangle multiple units, pick them off with ranged)

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted June 29, 2006 08:38 PM

Quote:
Vlaad, question: can you imbue mass spells?

Say there is one favorite enemy in my opponent's army, and I have Dark Magic and Master of Mind, can I imbue mass Slow and slow all their creatures?  
Good question, Iris!

You cannot imbue Mass Slow, Mass Weakness and Mass Suffering. These spells affect ALL the opponent's creatures. When you use Imbue Arrow, you can imbue only the spells that target a single stack or a limited area. Thus you can imbue Lightning or Meteor Shower, but not Mass Slow or Armageddon. However, you CAN imbue Mass Vulnerability, as it affects only a limited area.

Finally, keep in mind Rain of Arrows hits only your favored enemies, not other creatures.

If you use the ordinary single shot though, the previously imbued spell (mass or not) IS cast on any target you choose.

The problem is Rangers are not offered Dark Magic, but that was a great idea for a custom scenario! I can't wait to lay hands on the editor...

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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted June 29, 2006 09:52 PM

Imbuing an arrow with mass slow is kind of useless anyway since the effects of slow do not stack.  Vulnerability does stack, however.
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Iris
Iris


Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
posted June 29, 2006 10:09 PM

Quote:
When you use Imbue Arrow, you can imbue only the spells that target a single stack or a limited area. Thus you can imbue Lightning or Meteor Shower, but not Mass Slow or Armageddon. However, you CAN imbue Mass Vulnerability, as it affects only a limited area.


So I can cast Mass Decay!    Cool.  ^_^  Too bad you can't imbue Armageddon.  Can you imagine a Ballista casting Triple Armageddon?    Though I guess the Ballista would probably die after the first cast...

Quote:
The problem is Rangers are not offered Dark Magic, but that was a great idea for a custom scenario! I can't wait to lay hands on the editor...


Ever?    Hmm, I guess there's always the Witch's Huts.    Hehe, well, thanks a lot, Vlaad.  
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arkm1
arkm1


Adventuring Hero
Cube Monkey
posted June 30, 2006 02:55 AM
Edited by arkm1 at 02:56, 30 Jun 2006.

Does imbue work with blindness, frenzy, or puppet master?  I don't know if the damage negates the effect, but if it doesnt you can render half their army useless.  Especially if you put it on the ballista saving you a turn with your hero.

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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted June 30, 2006 03:08 AM

Imbue works with all those.  Problem is, the ballista fires too much at one opponent and those spells cost a lot of mana.  Works better rain of arrows.
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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted July 04, 2006 07:43 AM

Quote:
Quote:
When you use Imbue Arrow, you can imbue only the spells that target a single stack or a limited area. Thus you can imbue Lightning or Meteor Shower, but not Mass Slow or Armageddon. However, you CAN imbue Mass Vulnerability, as it affects only a limited area.


So I can cast Mass Decay!    Cool.  ^_^  Too bad you can't imbue Armageddon.  Can you imagine a Ballista casting Triple Armageddon?    Though I guess the Ballista would probably die after the first cast...

Quote:
The problem is Rangers are not offered Dark Magic, but that was a great idea for a custom scenario! I can't wait to lay hands on the editor...


Ever?    Hmm, I guess there's always the Witch's Huts.    Hehe, well, thanks a lot, Vlaad.  
You CAN get Dark Magic, but it's very unlikely - just like War Machines, Attack and Summoning Magic. Rangers are inclined towards Logistics and Luck most, but also Enlightenment, Defense, Light, Destructive and Leadership.

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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted July 04, 2006 04:48 PM

I've decided that getting imbue ballista is a crapshoot.  Better not to have any plans on taking it.  It was nice having rain of arrows on 3 favored enemies with my scroll of blind, though!  Immobilizing half your enemy's army in one action!  One thing to note is that I believe rain of arrows always hits incorporeal creatures.
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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted July 15, 2006 12:25 AM

I've been wondering...How do phantom forces work with last stand(defence ability)?Is there a chance that 'useless' Dirael has an ace up her sleeve? Logic dictates that the cloned stack should survive the first (successful)attack with 1hp-so no damage done!And phantom forces should appear in the mage guild at a percentage around 25%(50-50 summoning-dark->50-50 phantom forces-earthquake).Though some spells seem to appear more frequently eg summon elementals>firewall,implosion>armageddon,don't know for sure.
If I am right Dirael can (almost)dominate large maps.High stats clones that can survive even a successful attack?Stuff of legends!Would do well with resistance for obvious reasons
Can anyone confirm this?
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So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted July 18, 2006 11:13 AM
Edited by Vlaad at 11:16, 18 Jul 2006.

Quote:
I've been wondering...How do phantom forces work with last stand(defence ability)?Is there a chance that 'useless' Dirael has an ace up her sleeve?  Logic dictates that the cloned stack should survive the first (successful)attack with 1hp-so no damage done!And phantom forces should appear in the mage guild at a percentage around 25%(50-50 summoning-dark->50-50 phantom forces-earthquake).Though some spells seem to appear more frequently eg summon elementals>firewall,implosion>armageddon,don't know for sure.
If I am right Dirael can (almost)dominate large maps.High stats clones that can survive even a successful attack?Stuff of legends!Would do well with resistance for obvious reasons
Can anyone confirm this?
The Last Stand ability works with your last "real" stack. When it gets killed, your cloned stack(s) automatically disappear. In other words, a cloned stack cannot be your last standing stack.
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