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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 447 pages long: 1 60 120 180 240 300 360 420 ... 439 440 441 442 443 ... 447 · «PREV / NEXT»
Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Known Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted August 19, 2020 06:55 PM

I think Inferno's bigger problem is how expensive their buildings and troops are relative to what you get, the fact that imps are literally useless in every situation except as demon farming fodder, their only 2 fliers are their 2 highest level and most resource-demanding troops, and their only shooter is one of the worst in the game. Besides the imps and the gogs their units are IMO very good, but the cerberi have a base growth of 5, and like I said Efreets require a ton of rare resources to build their dwellings.

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Tordah
Tordah


Adventuring Hero
posted August 19, 2020 08:16 PM

Rimgrabber said:
I think Inferno's bigger problem is how expensive their buildings and troops are relative to what you get, the fact that imps are literally useless in every situation except as demon farming fodder, their only 2 fliers are their 2 highest level and most resource-demanding troops, and their only shooter is one of the worst in the game. Besides the imps and the gogs their units are IMO very good, but the cerberi have a base growth of 5, and like I said Efreets require a ton of rare resources to build their dwellings.


I agree completely.

My typical strat for inferno is to rush Efreets first week with Castle, and try to dominate second week with them. But the strat is so ressource tight it's not working all the time. Even if i can make the dwelling happen i don't necessarily have the ressources to buy them day 1 week 2.

But if you do, you have about 6 turns of utter domination. Works on small maps.

One quick fix would be to reduce the ressource requirements for dwellings and units, and maybe boost the growth a little. If hell hounds is 5 base growth and costs 200, maybe make base growth 6 and costs 175. it will be more powerful for a similar cost.

I agree imps are worthless. Gogs are underpowered, and Demons feel somewhat like zombies; the moment you get them, they are severely outmatched by every other options. Pit lords are good on paper but their ability to summon demons is not really good, because summoning a worthless units doesn't help that much (other than abusing this ability with demon farming).

Plus there isn't any "over the top" hero for inferno that makes you win early (like Solmyr for tower which has one of the best spell for early game). If there was a hero with blind or berserk as a starting spell at least, coupled with fire magic it could at least give a chance to inferno (easily counterable so not too OP).

Anyways there are a lot of ways to make inferno viable. Right now they are severely underpowered, it's the one faction that loses against every other, which is lame.

Hell, the only good experience i have with fire magic is onto custom maps when you can play Adrienne because she starts with expert fire magic so the playing field is levelled (like the popular Europe scenario on maps4heroes). You can still get wrecked by some regular hero with basic air magic and lightning, but at least you have a chance of playing with fire magic.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted August 19, 2020 09:26 PM

This "abuse" is vital to how to have a good time with Inferno. Demons is Inferno's powerstack.
In HotA Magogs aren't all that bad.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted August 19, 2020 09:40 PM

Tordah said:

My typical strat for inferno is to rush Efreets first week with Castle, and try to dominate second week with them. But the strat is so ressource tight it's not working all the time. Even if i can make the dwelling happen i don't necessarily have the ressources to buy them day 1 week 2.


On your next game, give a chance to Calh and try upgrading the gogs on day 1. On avarage, you should have around 30 magogs to start with, and they're really good early game stack. I like to think that Magogs are probably the most buffed creature in Hota when compared to old Sod.

If you're willing to give imps a chance to redeem themselves, try starting with Ignatius and upgrade the imps on day 1. Turns out that a even weak creatures like that can dish some nice damage, if you're having a stack of over 100 of them.

I'm not trying to say that Inferno would be a good town, thou.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted August 19, 2020 10:12 PM

Ye, there are some smart ways to use Imps/Familiars and Magogs, especially in HotA and many of its competitive templates.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 20, 2020 12:10 PM

What is going to happen with original Halflings? Will they and their original dwelling be completely removed from the game?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 20, 2020 12:14 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:18, 20 Aug 2020.

Good question? Will neutrals race lose his level 1 shooter? Cause that's an important change in the alignment... Low difficulty Pandoras and Hiden Events traps, using neutrals, will lose the shooting ability.
____________
The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted August 20, 2020 12:15 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 12:22, 20 Aug 2020.

Like it or not, but....

They really need those level 1 unpugraded shooters better than Master Gremlins so they can have it at the top of the meta.

Edit: Forgot to mention it, they actually did confirm the loss of the neutral Halfling already.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 20, 2020 12:33 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:39, 20 Aug 2020.

Okay so Factory is allowed to shoot with a downgraded level 1 unit, but Conflux is not allowed Sprites before you have build Magic University, which is likely one of the last things you build at Conflux. Makes sense...

I wonder if there is a halfling specialist, should be pretty good to start with and if that's the case, I don't see why there could'nt be a gremlin specialist either...

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted August 20, 2020 12:42 PM

I know. H4 Sprites are much stronger than H3, but 6 speed. and 1lvl shooters are Crossbowmen and Halfings. But weaker. More precise balance, and HotA Team thinks different ways.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted August 20, 2020 12:44 PM

Wait a second Ghost what are you even talking about.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted August 20, 2020 12:47 PM

I disagree with building university after you can buy Sprites.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 20, 2020 12:58 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:00, 20 Aug 2020.

Actually I remember there IS a halfling specialist, Henrietta the Mercenary with Pathfinding and Archery. She might only be a campaign hero though.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 20, 2020 01:12 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:14, 20 Aug 2020.

Ghost said:
I disagree with building university after before you can buy upgrade Sprites.
You're welcome and I agree.
____________
The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted August 20, 2020 01:30 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 13:31, 20 Aug 2020.

Ghost said:
I know. H4 Sprites are much stronger than H3, but 6 speed. and 1lvl shooters are Crossbowmen and Halfings. But weaker. More precise balance, and HotA Team thinks different ways.


Marksmen are level 2 shooters, stronger than both Halflings and Master Gremlins (actually, I don't even understand what you exactly meant with that sentence).

Ye, HotA team thinks different ways, by having all good stuff in one faction, for meta balance (eg. 2 OP factions from NWC, 1 OP faction from HotA team).
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 20, 2020 01:39 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:40, 20 Aug 2020.

Both Cove and Factory seems slightly OP, not as much as classic Necro and Conflux were though.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted August 20, 2020 01:45 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 13:45, 20 Aug 2020.

Cove is average+, ngl. And Ram Ranch is gonna have either repair (heal/resurrect) machine skill, or some kind of Necromancy 2.0 with the tier 4 Automaton. Also, I expect both the tier 4 and 7 robots to be pretty relevant because of that. And there are also all the other units which seem to have at least average stats, maybe except the smoking girls. Let's not forget a way to push early game probably easier than Tower with a better unupgraded shooter than the upgraded Master Gremlins.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted August 20, 2020 01:48 PM

Yes HotA Team worked well. But if Sprites are 6 speed, we don't need to build M. University. And I talked about H4, in only 1lvl shooters are Crossbowmen and Halflings can beat Sprites, because of 6 speed. But in melee combat Sprites beat shooters. Ok FirePaladin, I haven't thought 2lvl Marksmen. When I make Homecoming (WoG/ERA), I create H4 . Nice troops are peace and slow move. Balance! And damage is damage in the battlefield, so I'm still disagree with M. University.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted August 20, 2020 02:02 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 14:03, 20 Aug 2020.

Sprites are gonna remain with 9 speed. HotA doesn't touch unit stats, so they had to somehow try and nerf the Sprites (and Luna insane rush) without changing stats.

(Also, you should have mentioned from the start you were talking about H4, it can get really confusing otherwise).
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 20, 2020 02:03 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:07, 20 Aug 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
Both Cove and Factory seems slightly OP, not as much as classic Necro and Conflux were though.
Cove doesn't have a stronger alignment then Castle and doesn't have a better heroes pool then Stronghold but when you combine those two it beats all other factions, at least in SP.
I don't mind to have OP factions (or I wouldn't have created Power Castle...) but I think they want too much to make their own factions favorite picks.

*What is Power Castle? Is Castle but you start with Gundula or Corkes and have Dracon and Gelu in nearby prisons.
____________
The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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