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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 26, 2014 10:55 AM |
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Edited by artu at 10:56, 26 Feb 2014.
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Well, many historians argue that the gradual change of England was much healthier than French Revolution and while removing of the corrupt aristocracy and clergy, with forming of a new kind of nation-state army gave them an advantage in the short run (kind of like the frenzy spell in H3 ), in the long run, France never was as strong as it used to be. A little speculative.
Russia's rise had a lot to do with the weakining of Europe by the two world wars and especially the second one. WW2 was quite inevitable but the personality of Hitler and his blind ambititon carried the destruction it brought to immense levels. That was a great advantage fot the Soviets after the war. Also keep in mind, no matter what their regime is, when you talk about Russia or China, you are talking about a huge geography and enormous population (man power) which never hurts.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 26, 2014 10:59 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 11:05, 26 Feb 2014.
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England also had its costly revolution and civil war. Just a few centuries earlier and the changes weren't that immediate.
Edit: a bit more than a century actually, but for some reason I always place it earlier... 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 26, 2014 11:04 AM |
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Well, I guess you are referring to the Cromwell area but that's what I mean by "gradual". The middle-class never had the intention to remove the aristocracy and monarchy there, they decapitated a king they didnt like much earlier than France (1640's) but they always knew they were going to replace it with another one. They showed the monarchy their hand, that they, as a rising social class, had power. But they didnt want to turn the system all upside down. I would hesitate to call it a revolution in the classical sense.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted February 26, 2014 03:12 PM |
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artu said:
Well, many historians argue that the gradual change of England was much healthier than French Revolution and while removing of the corrupt aristocracy and clergy, with forming of a new kind of nation-state army gave them an advantage in the short run (kind of like the frenzy spell in H3), in the long run, France never was as strong as it used to be. A little speculative.
True, we do not know what would have happened if the french never rebelled. My own kingdom gradually changed because revolution just is not in our blood/culture. We turned out fine despite the monarchy although we are pretty relatively weak compared to the great-power era.
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted February 26, 2014 03:28 PM |
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Edited by kayna at 15:30, 26 Feb 2014.
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Well it's kind of what I wrote a few days ago... Whoever gets to counter an argument has the advantage. Had the Europeans tried to gain power in Ukraine first, they might have done stupid things like the Russians did, and so the Ukrainians might have turned to Russia instead, but it went the other way around. People don't like to be manipulated, especially with serious stuff like closing the natural gas line.
If I had the choice between marrying a rude woman and a well mannered one, and I knew that in both cases they will divorce me 3 years later for half my money, I would still go with the well mannered one. I suppose that is what Ukrainians are doing now. Russia really needs to work on their people s skills, on a political level at least, well, unless it was their plan all along and an they will soon annex south east Ukraine.
Also is it really true that Ukraine's biggest export to Russia was candy? Who's the idiot that focused on such an unimportant good? In which year did those candy manufactures start rolling? Who was the leader back then?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2014 03:42 PM |
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kayna said:
Also is it really true that Ukraine's biggest export to Russia was candy? Who's the idiot that focused on such an unimportant good? In which year did those candy manufactures start rolling? Who was the leader back then?
borys wonka, apparently.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2014 10:52 PM |
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what's wrong with exporting candies?
seriously, that sounds way better than "exporting democracy"
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted February 27, 2014 06:44 AM |
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Candy has absolutely no leverage to it. Really advantageous to trade candy for oil though. I suppose Russia was making them a favor to trade oil for candy but at the same time gained the power to pull the plug any time they wanted.
Whether they side with the EU or Russia, they ll always suck Russia's cock for oil, so yeah...
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2014 07:20 AM |
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/off-topic
i love how that word isn't turned to "snow", but the feminine counterpart to that word, "snow" is. it's as if, anyone would use the word "cock" in place of the word "rooster". i think both of those words are worse than the "curse" word for fecal matter, which is turned to "snow".
/end off-topic
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 03:29 PM |
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So Putin is asking his parlament for permission to invade all of Ukraine. Americans, this is why you need to vote for Republican presidents. Obama's foreign policy is weak, Russia needs to be kept in the doghouse.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 01, 2014 03:40 PM |
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everytime I read a post by xerox I feel my brain cells committing suicide one after another.
you can't be this stupid now. Or can you?
legit sources of this? or this is just another yank&jew sponsored propaganda campaign? I guess it is, and liberalist dumbasses like yourself believe every snowing word of this epic sized piece of bullcrap.
Besides, after the olympics, Russia is snowing broke. where they get the funds for a military campaign?
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 03:47 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 15:48, 01 Mar 2014.
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Here you go, http://rt.com/news/russia-troops-ukraine-possible-359/ This infringes both on international law and treaties with Ukraine. The US, EU and NATO must act.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 01, 2014 04:08 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:16, 01 Mar 2014.
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To start a war with Russia, eh? Heh. Cute. And slightly pathetic. You really need to read something about how international politics work, kiddo.
As for international laws, they don't exist for great powers. Simple as that. At this point Crimea looks like Kosovo in reverse.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 04:44 PM |
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I mentioned war? Nope. Ofc international laws exist, doesnt mean theyre always enforced but you sure wont have a very good reputation by not respecting them. Reputation is kinda handy when youre a great power in a globalized world. And Russia under Putin already has a bad enough reputation internationally.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 01, 2014 04:59 PM |
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What do you suggest then, economic embargo? Better check where the gas comes from then. The EU is VERY interested to stay on Russia's good side for the forseeable future, you can bet your ass that they won't do anything major no matter how many times they repeat "laws", "human rights", "sovereignity", etc. in public. The US can't do much but wave its democratic finger and repeat how worried it is about what's happening in Ukraine. There's an unwritten rule in the international politics that Russia's immediate neighbours are considered Russia's external territory as far as the spheres of influence are concerned. That's nothing new.
As for Putin's Russia repupation - another nonsense. Russia under Putin improved internally and internationally immensely and everyone sees that (perhaps except the Swedish libertarians). You think that a government of a country that has never been even remotely democratic gives a damn how the Western media describes it? You seriously need a huge dose of reality check coffee.
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 01, 2014 05:28 PM |
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I think this "invasion" that Russia's done is simply to prevent a genocide, like the one happened in Balkans not long ago.
Oh my god they drove in a few BTRs, they sent in some troops, oh gosh this is violation of some epic sized bullsnow treaty.
When obama is sued for war crimes? So, drone strikes on civilians is ok, trying to protect someone from yank&jew sponsored bandits is bad? The Crimean people declared that they wish an autonomuos state. Respect that you basterds.
I wish that yanukovich had balls and ordered the ukrainian army to kill the damn basterds along with all the snowing opposition with them.
But yea, peacefull protest. didn't know that throwing molotovs at riot police who is standig idly is a peaceful protest.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted March 01, 2014 05:57 PM |
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Zenofex said:
Russia under Putin improved internally...
I wonder if russian homosexuals agree with you(and everyone apparently) how great life inside Russia is... 
kipshasz said:
I think this "invasion" that Russia's done is simply to prevent a genocide, like the one happened in Balkans not long ago.
Oh my god they drove in a few BTRs, they sent in some troops, oh gosh this is violation of some epic sized bullsnow treaty.
When obama is sued for war crimes? So, drone strikes on civilians is ok, trying to protect someone from yank&jew sponsored bandits is bad? The Crimean people declared that they wish an autonomuos state. Respect that you basterds.
I wish that yanukovich had balls and ordered the ukrainian army to kill the damn basterds along with all the snowing opposition with them.
But yea, peacefull protest. didn't know that throwing molotovs at riot police who is standig idly is a peaceful protest.
So much BS...
Only a retard would believe that Russia would send troops into Ukraine to stop a genocide. Russia does not care if people are being killed in the millions and makes international decisions based on its own selfishness. Russia fanatically supported the incredibly evil tyrant of Syria for its own benefit regardless of the countless of people suffering in the civil war. Your precious ex-president was the one doing the genocide and you loved it.
Nobody here is saying that Obama's drone strikes are ok. He should be tried for his crimes alongside Bush and Putin...
kipshasz said:
trying to protect someone from yank&jew sponsored bandits is bad? The Crimean people declared that they wish an autonomuos state. Respect that you basterds.
I wish that yanukovich had balls and ordered the ukrainian army to kill the damn basterds along with all the snowing opposition with them.
But yea, peacefull protest. didn't know that throwing molotovs at riot police who is standig idly is a peaceful protest.
Who are they protecting from yank/jew sponsored bandits? A corrupt and violent, russia sponsored bandit government, that is what they are protecting. Maybe the crim-russians will to be independant or russian will be respected when russia will respect its own rebellious states.
Since the molotov throwing protesters should be destroyed with the full force of the military, I can only imagine what you think should happen to armed rebels such as those in Crimea...
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 01, 2014 06:15 PM |
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Edited by Baklava at 18:20, 01 Mar 2014.
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You people understand that the Russians are basing their Black Sea fleet in Ukraine and that they have military bases there?
Yanukovich was elected. Which means that enough people voted for him. Which means that enough people are angry that he's being replaced with pro-EU elements. Coincidentally, these people are Ukrainian Russians that make up half of the country. And Russia likes Russians and Russian military bases.
The Russian parliament has unanimously (because one does not simply vote "no") green-lighted the use of troops in Ukraine. This is a crisis that reminds a lot of the Kosovo one, as Zeno said, just with the roles switched.
It's also similar to that recent case when the West convinced Georgia to give the Russians the finger during the Olympics in China and promised them NATO membership, building the missile shield etc. Remember how that turned out for them? Perhaps no one expected a reaction this swift and tough from Putin this time, with Sochi and constant smear campaigns and all.
There is no efficient way to protect Ukrainian territorial integrity here, since neither war nor embargoes against Russia are an option. I am very sorry that the Ukrainians are being manipulated to dig their own grave and I optimistically hope they snap out of it and go for a deal without much bloodshed. As for what exactly's going to happen, we wait and see. But what is certain is that the West will turn their backs on them, Maidan being just another failed project on the global stage.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 01, 2014 06:18 PM |
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what do we know about Syria? from the media? They only tell what they're paid for. So unless we grab our guns and go see it for ourselves, I doubt we'll know the truth.
Oh yea. corruption. So why all of the Ex soviet states don't get democracy? oh wait. some of us allready has it. yea. snowing bullsnow.
yanks can say "obama is a dick" all over the snowing web, even wipe their asses with an image of the master negro, but If I post a rude comment about Lithuania's politicians, I'll end up in the slammer. so where's the snowing freedom of speech? Where's the freedom?
Oh, right we have some yank puppet in here who wishes to turn my country into the Jerusalem of the North. That's freedom. Right? In my view not. most of these self proclaimed "revolutionaries" are just nothing more than terrorists. A little chat with Belarussian oposition youth confirmed this.
What about Crimeans? they armed themselves to protect themselves agaisnt the bandits who were looting army supply depos, razing buildings and killing idle cops.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 06:22 PM |
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Some wars are worth fighting. Others aren't. If everyone there speaks Russian, it's not a war worth fighting for in my opinion. Let's just let Russia take back some parts of Ukraine and be done with it. No need to let this drag on and on if everyone knows Russia s gonna get what they want eventually.
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