|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
posted November 13, 2016 02:56 AM |
|
|
Well, to 1, the answer is in the question. If some people can't accept a democratic issue and have to resort to violence because it didn't work their way, that tells more about their indoctrination level than about their opponent devilish side. Personally I respect all people who work hard, you will never see me calling Hollande a dipsnow, dumb, rapist, jerk, but rather focalize to his attitudes, like arrogance, his disconnection from real life issues, his dogmatism, his lies.
Lets look at it from a realistic way. The medias are on the power side because they are financed by the power, -that was so visible within Trump campaign. They pour out their tantrum and propaganda all the time, so one can't say he didn't receive the message, he has no choice. However, after all this brainwashing (or call it simple information if you agree with the message, I don't), a majority of people don't want that message because either they don't like it, or it doesn't answer to their worries at all, or even because they uncovered the lies and propaganda behind.
We are still at the very early Trump presidency, but well... still observing simple facts shows which side the lies were on. Wall Street went down during 5 hours and now is higher than ever. Trump had a very polite one hour conversation with Obama. Hillary asked everyone to work with Trump and proposed her services. Trump publicly told that Hillary did an awesome work for America and they owe her so much. Medias are inviting Trump and no one got raped, not even grabbed by the pussy. Wow, we indeed assist at the end of the world, as predicted. The Wehrmacht is weaving its web!
True that a few morons still ask for physically killing Trump supporters while marching in the streets, but thats what you noticed for France too. Some people need time to grasp they don't own the world around.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 13, 2016 07:57 AM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
PS: sorry folks for the off top, but there are so many similarities between Europe and US elections. I promise, I am done and will leave to smart artu the last word.
Reminds me of Trump and his promise to repeal ObamaCare. Ah, but what does one care of yesterday's talk. 
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 03:40 PM |
|
|
@Sal
Well, the protests against Trump and Le Pen aren't exactly the same in that sense, since in the case of Le Pen, the election system had two tours and the protests were aimed at red flagging the idle voters who would then vote in favor of his rivals, and it worked.
Of course, the institutional response to Trump's victory, in a democracy, should be to act as a gentleman and politely welcome him to office and that's what Obama did. But that doesnt change the fact that a candidate who was considered mainstream would cause no protests of this scale and Trump did.
(Btw, to say abortion needs some form of punishment for example, in a developed, industrial country is by all means extreme. What is "some form," is he going to slap their hands with a ruler or something? Abortion will be legal or illegal, and in a liberal democracy, it is extreme to suggest that it should be illegal by today's standards. You have a right to suggest such a thing but then you wont be categorized as mainstream and that would be an accurate categorization.)
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Baronus
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 05:22 PM |
|
|
Kid is a human or not?
Is a human, so abortion is murder. Very sadistic because child cant defense.
Tertium non datur.
Trump said no murder, Clinton murder yes. So choice for true human is only one.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 05:44 PM |
|
|
I'm not going to get into an abortion debate here, if abortion is murder, then in all the green countries, murder is perfectly legal, tertium non datur that. It is certainly not a mainstream political stance to hold onto.
 [/url]
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Baronus
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 06:43 PM |
|
|
|
Yes. Peoples are beasts... Crimes, murders, genocide its a people history... Our times are the same like pasts.
|
|
AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 07:36 PM |
|
|
Come on, Poland and Spain, why aren't you green like the others?
And this is a serious question.
____________
Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 07:46 PM |
|
|
And Ireland... All very Catholic countries. Not sure about how religious are the Spanish these days but both Poland and Ireland are known for it. You'd think that would also have an effect on Italy but I guess in Italy, there's also a reverse social effect like "we are not the Vatican!" What would you say to that, Neraus?
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 08:12 PM |
|
|
"Some form" of punishment means it can apply to the whole social mechanism which drives to abortion. From prevention, advertising, doctors practicing it, associations promoting it, up to individual responsibility. Such form of punishment could also consider that the respective woman is a victim of several factors from above.
Of course that abortion should be possible, but not the today's pattern, no limit, no questions. It became a trivial fact.
|
|
Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 08:24 PM |
|
|
@artu
Italy is not the Vatican, as much as I'd like it to be.
Honestly, this is a country founded on lay principles, as Cavour, one of the fathers of our country puts it: "Free church in free state".
The pope never liked the unification of Italy, since it was just proclaimed the government was excommunicated, and you can imagine what happened after the royal army occupied Rome.
Indeed, there was always a huge divide between Catholics and Liberals in our history, and there was even a period in which Catholics boycotted the government in protest of Rome's conquest, without even counting the times of the brigands who acted in the name of the pope and king Francis II of the Two Sicilies.
The middle-class in Italy has always been distinctly anti-clerical, and Mussolini himself was an anti-clerical, he however knew that he had to compromise with Catholics, so that's why you still see the Vatican state today.
We actually had a referendum regarding abortion in Italy, and as you can see, the majority voted for abortion, there is still a section of the populace that is vehemently opposed, but we lost the vote so...
The usual Italian is anti-clerical after all, you can ask most here and you're gonna get a confirmation of this, unless you go in my circles of course...
And really, what can you expect in a country where an entire region blasphemes the Lord while they talk, go talk to a Venetian, or an Emilian, they can say some really creative epithets, which is especially taboo for us southerners, especially if you consider that we are littered with shrines dedicated to Christ, the Virgin Mary or some local saint.
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 14, 2016 11:46 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
"Some form" of punishment means it can apply to the whole social mechanism which drives to abortion. From prevention, advertising, doctors practicing it, associations promoting it, up to individual responsibility. Such form of punishment could also consider that the respective woman is a victim of several factors from above.
Of course that abortion should be possible, but not the today's pattern, no limit, no questions. It became a trivial fact.
"If abortion becomes illegal women should face some form of punishment" can not mean those things, Sal. What you talk about is mostly restrictions or discouragement, not punishment and it mostly involves the third parties not the women.
See, that was what I'm talking about. While blaming the media for twisting his words, you're doing the exact same thing in reverse only because you symphatize with him on immigration issues.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 02:12 AM |
|
|
Baronus said:
Kid is a human or not?
Is a human, so abortion is murder. Very sadistic because child cant defense.
Tertium non datur.
Trump said no murder, Clinton murder yes. So choice for true human is only one.
I agree and disagree. I agree that the crime should be murder, but the defence should be that it was lawful murder. In that sense it appeases both sides, you aren't punished for having an abortion, but at the same time we make the law more precise and just. Anonimity of the courts is an absolute must, no naming victims or perpetrators, in media or anywhere else.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 02:23 AM |
|
|
i disagree with at least two of trump's stances. i'm certainly pro-abortion, and pro-environment. that he thinks global warming is a hoax(or so i've read), and is likely to make fracking something ordinary in the states... is disastrous, to say the least.
and i certainly disagree with his vp choice, because anyone attempting to deny evolution at this point in history, is like saying the earth is still flat. which for that bonehead vp, it probably is. 
also, in the spirit of equality; i would like to add:
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 06:21 AM |
|
|
fred79 said:
i disagree with at least two of trump's stances. i'm certainly pro-abortion, and pro-environment. that he thinks global warming is a hoax(or so i've read), and is likely to make fracking something ordinary in the states... is disastrous, to say the least.
I heard he plans to cut corners on research and ignore co2 omissions. That is a scary thought, especially the latter that will affect the whole planet.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 07:20 AM |
|
|
artu said:
"If abortion becomes illegal women should face some form of punishment" can not mean those things, Sal.
While blaming the media for twisting his words, you're doing the exact same thing
Do I? Or is you who google for the result you want and repeat the same lie again and again? I have the video, the phrase is "There should be a form of punishment". Period. He doesn't add anything, nor after nor before. Google for IT, not for medias translations.
And THIS IS WHAT I talk about. Have a good read and give me a break please.
“If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman,” Trump said in the statement. “The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. My position has not changed—like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions.”
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 08:55 AM |
|
Edited by artu at 09:06, 15 Nov 2016.
|
It's Trump that is dancing around, I watched another video, he's says there should be some kind of punishment, they specifically ask "on the women?" and he confirms, shaking his head, and saying "humm huh."
Even your own link confirms thats he WALKS BACK from previous comments and it's not something we don't see with pragmaticsts like Trump, is it. They say something, there's reaction all over, they tune it down or even abandone the position completely. Doesn't make the previous comments media lies.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 09:14 AM |
|
|
lol, you could just acknowledge "I am wrong, I searched too fast and got fooled" but no. You accused me of dishonesty then now you continue to "dance around" too.
If I say "bla bla" then media interprets it "bli bli", then I make it clear that bla + bla means bla bla and not bli bli, it doesn't mean "I am dancing around" or "I am walking back". It means I am clearing an issue which has been misinterpreted.
I am not pro Trump, I could not care less who is winning in that country. I just point that universal values as honesty and trust are gone, between media and public. Medias are now owned by very rich oligarchs, who have their own business and their oiled system, so every outsider trying to change those comfortable pattern gets toasted.
Or Trump election shows that the public doesn't fall anymore for this kind of dishonesty. Which makes things even worse, as if we don't buy anymore newspapers then they have to reckon even more on private funds, so lie even further.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 09:19 AM |
|
Edited by artu at 09:21, 15 Nov 2016.
|
I accused you of confirmation bias, not dishonesty. And how is Trump changing his position, becomes me fasting too search and getting fooled exactly?
Trump DOES say women should have some form of punishment, which cant mean any of your interpretations indeed. Then, when there is reaction, he shifts position with saying something absurd like "I meant women should punish themselves." Is that media twisting his words like you want to confirm or is that Trump taking a walk back just like your own link suggests.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 09:58 AM |
|
|
you give again wrong quote, artu ^^
Anyway, I think his last statement -the one I fully quoted in italics, is what it matters. Trump comes from nowhere, politically speaking, he has the right of taking his time, think and evolve on critical issues -don't forget that the religious aspect in US is overwhelming, making unclear statements and then clarify them. Is not like no one did that, never.
The fact that he finally comes with a moderated and intelligent statement on abortion looks positive in my book, not negative.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2016 10:10 AM |
|
|
Guys, he's a politician. His main interest is getting elected. You don't seriously think politicians ambitious enough to become president of the US are offering their true opinions on something of importance, do you.
It doesn't actually matter what ANYONE says BEFORE an election - repealing Obama care? Hell, no. Yes, I promised it, but, hey, ELECTION PROMISE. Sue me!
Did you know the Clintons were guests at the Trump wedding, by the way? 
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
