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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 54 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 ... 45 46 47 48 49 ... 50 54 · «PREV / NEXT»
P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted September 23, 2018 11:28 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 23:31, 23 Sep 2018.

phoenix4ever said:

- So does Harpy Hags, Cerberi, Vampires, Magic Elementals, Hydras, Devils and every other creature I have forgotten with No Enemy Retaliation. The fact that a very weak level 1 requires Magic University is absurd.
- Are you sure? They really dont like Lightning, Chain Lightning or Armageddon and they can't be resurrected.
- Yep, Phoenixes are fast.
- Maybe, but it does'nt give Armageddon anymore and Tower's is also pretty great.
- Yes, but level 6 and 7 became more expensive and level 2-6 still can't be resurrected.
- Yes, it used to be 2x bigger growth though.
- No Armageddon is still there, I lowered the damage in my game though.
- Yeah, I don't think their might heroes are that great though and they don't have any skill specialists.


- Nope Sprite are in much bigger quantity available and much earlier in game. every conflux hero boosts the army even more. You can rush hard in first week with sprites.
- they indeed are theb est lvl2 creatures even back the days before armageddons blade. thats why their count is some lower, shooting makes them even better.
- Conflux grail is way better than vision, the academy is also there... that means you can always power your heroes to top, never wasted/useless heroes anymore with a conflux town and an academy.
- Who cares about resurrection at all?
- Armageddon... grail? Possibilities about a possible endgame... not really relevant imho.
- Magic heroes are already the best compared to other towns.

Otuken said:
Agree, Conflux needs buff urgently and Tower needs nerf. How would you do it?


Erm, bullsh*t? It's well as it is... The only thing I would change on tower is the mage tower requirements splitted to 3 each base and 2 each upgraded. maybe the same for Naga but they are still super powerful so no need imho. Cost of cloud temple was already decreased to 20k and thats a reasonable price. Edit: Maybe I would reduce the cost of magic elementals down to 1100 or 1150 so no big change at all. Phoenixes down to 2500 or 2750 per unit

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 24, 2018 01:29 AM

Ok. Seems like you don't know the meaning of nerf. It means that Tower's power should be reduced.

20k reasonable price for cloud of temple? It is ridiciosly way too cheap just compare it with forsaken palace. Their dwellings require the same amount of gold but Titans are op while devils are sucks.  

Tower's 7.th dwellings require totally just 25k while Castle's 40k, Inferno's 35k. Dungeon's and Rampart's are even worse in terms of acessable since they require mage guild lvl 2-3.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted September 24, 2018 04:39 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 04:42, 24 Sep 2018.

P4R4D0X0N said:
- Magic heroes are already the best compared to other towns.

No, they aren't. Inteus is useless, Labetha is only worth cause she starts with Earth, Ciele and Luna are good early game but they lose that value as soon as you have better spells. Where are heroes like Elleshar, whose specialty can be game breaking?
More, while they start with one magic school, elementalists only have exception for magic at every 4 levels, while all other magic heroes have it every 3 levels. This isn't necessarily bad for them, since they can buy any missing school but since they get crapy choices it may happen that they end up with one or even two useless skills. Compare that to Solmyr's Sorcery and you see they aren't that good.
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FrothFrenzy
FrothFrenzy


Hired Hero
posted September 24, 2018 10:51 AM

bloodsucker said:
More, while they start with one magic school, elementalists only have exception for magic at every 4 levels, while all other magic heroes have it every 3 levels. This isn't necessarily bad for them, since they can buy any missing school but since they get crapy choices it may happen that they end up with one or even two useless skills.


It's a minor thing, but I believe this was actually fixed in HotA to follow the natural magic hero progression. The gap for Wisdom is also 3 levels instead of 6. As you said, though, it might even have been originally intended this way because of the university.

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Anastazjan
Anastazjan

Tavern Dweller
posted September 25, 2018 10:36 PM

How about creating a "random terrain" for map editor which can be linked to a town?

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 26, 2018 10:05 AM

Anastazjan said:
How about creating a "random terrain" for map editor which can be linked to a town?


You mean that if the game randomly selects Tower for a Town, you'd get snow terrain during game creation in its surrounding region, but if the game selects Fortress for that Town instead, you'd get swamp terrain in that same spot?
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Anastazjan
Anastazjan

Tavern Dweller
posted September 26, 2018 10:43 AM
Edited by Anastazjan at 10:48, 26 Sep 2018.

Maurice said:

You mean that if the game randomly selects Tower for a Town, you'd get snow terrain during game creation in its surrounding region, but if the game selects Fortress for that Town instead, you'd get swamp terrain in that same spot?


Yes, that's exactly what I meant. It would work like "Random Dwelling" where we can choose the the alignment to a town.
I came up with another idea. Maybe it is possible to link f.e. trees from snow region and trees from swamp region and when the whole terrain is changing, then the simmilar object can change too.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 26, 2018 11:39 AM
Edited by Maurice at 11:39, 26 Sep 2018.

Anastazjan said:
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. It would work like "Random Dwelling" where we can choose the the alignment to a town.
I came up with another idea. Maybe it is possible to link f.e. trees from snow region and trees from swamp region and when the whole terrain is changing, then the simmilar object can change too.



I kinda like that idea, to be honest. All you'd need is a translation table or offset table for the objects in terrain type with respect to one another. The game would then determine which of the columns in that table to use based on the randomly chosen terrain.

Also, during map editing it would be useful to have a paint brush tool which would simply repaint the terrain (and objects) under the brush in a different terrain style, replacing stuff as you go.

This idea only works, though, if all objects and all terrain tiles within a given terrain type appear in all terrain types.
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homerofgods
homerofgods

Tavern Dweller
posted September 26, 2018 11:45 AM

Are there any plans to make simultanious turns work even after you mean other players on the map? For example if two players pick up the same item, simultanious turns will be interrupted. Instead whoever got there first could get the item

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 29, 2018 12:16 AM

What about allowing 10 adventuring hero?

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted September 30, 2018 03:14 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 22:17, 30 Sep 2018.

Otuken said:
Ok. Seems like you don't know the meaning of nerf. It means that Tower's power should be reduced.

20k reasonable price for cloud of temple? It is ridiciosly way too cheap just compare it with forsaken palace. Their dwellings require the same amount of gold but Titans are op while devils are sucks.  

Tower's 7.th dwellings require totally just 25k while Castle's 40k, Inferno's 35k. Dungeon's and Rampart's are even worse in terms of acessable since they require mage guild lvl 2-3.


Tower defintely doesn't need any nerf... its units are super slow compared to other towns and aren't immune to magic, three units are immune to mindspells whats nice but two units are uniliving so no resurrection. Units and building are damn expensive aswell (reason why this was fixed in HotA), I still don't see a problem. Granted giants deal tons of damage compared to their price and price of the cloud temple, at least when you cast bless on them. You need a lot of other buildings and resources for cload temple (mage tower isn't included anymore, but golden pavilion and altar of wishes are still expensive)

vs AI... granted tower is powerful but this can't be the "balance problem" here. You may also notice that tower isn't really played by anyone in higher ranks for a good reason...

Devils are still super strong, no retailiation with good speed is just perfect, you also have to count in external buildings (+1 devil every week per town) and these are very common on underground terrain, also the negative luck thats finally useful in hotA. You can also see that Inferno is one of the best towns in PvP if played correctly. No buff needed.

bloodsucker said:
P4R4D0X0N said:
- Magic heroes are already the best compared to other towns.

No, they aren't. Inteus is useless, Labetha is only worth cause she starts with Earth, Ciele and Luna are good early game but they lose that value as soon as you have better spells. Where are heroes like Elleshar, whose specialty can be game breaking?
More, while they start with one magic school, elementalists only have exception for magic at every 4 levels, while all other magic heroes have it every 3 levels. This isn't necessarily bad for them, since they can buy any missing school but since they get crapy choices it may happen that they end up with one or even two useless skills. Compare that to Solmyr's Sorcery and you see they aren't that good.


The start is the most crucial phase in any game a rush with Luna on a lvl7 bank in week 1 could be match-winning. The university itself is one of the most powerful buildings ingame... expensive, but you can't waste any other hero anymore because of it.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted October 01, 2018 12:33 AM

Tower is not very fast because they don't really need it since they already have 3 ranged units. Getting Titans is much more easier than getting Archdevils, Dragons and Archangels.

So what makes Titans unbalanced do you know? It is ranged unit and ranged units are expected to be a bit fragile and slow for counterbalance such as Markman or Grand Elves because otherwise they would be overpowered. But there are some exceptions such as evil eye/medusa they have above-average HP as a shooter (still not as hp as ground units) but they deal little damage as shooter and it makes them balanced.

What about Titans? They have above average speed as shooter and they are even faster than Hydras/Behemoths. They have the most HP and deal the biggest damage plus mind spell immunity! They are just slighlty more expensive than Archdevils but much more better in almost every aspects.

Devils are absolutely garbage, one of the worst and least cost effective unit in the game. They have no enemy retaliation but Titans already have this ability since shooting is a kind of no enemy retaliation.

Just I would like to learn that why imps are more expensive than goblins when they are weaker than goblins or why devil's dwellings are more expensive than Titans dwellings?

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 01, 2018 06:18 AM

I support the "Faction determines terrain" initiative. Factions like Fortress were originally balanced intending them to have an advantage of movement on their home Swamp, but then random maps don't even give them swamp, thus destroying the suppossed advantage.
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Djangoo
Djangoo


Adventuring Hero
posted October 01, 2018 09:38 AM

@Nimo

This feature already exists in HotA template editor and is called match terrain to town .

It is the default setting for starting zones, for treasure zones it has to be turned on.

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Nimostar
Nimostar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 01, 2018 02:03 PM
Edited by Nimostar at 14:05, 01 Oct 2018.

Nice, though i didnt realize this was the Hota thread.

About hota then, whats with the awful new magic resistance mechanics?

Before this was useful vs creatures like farie dragons or dread knights or mummies, now only vs enemy heroes and even then bad. Is making a curse last 14 turns instead of 18 really going to change the result of any final battle? And reducing damage is even less than 30% since base damage isnt reduced at all...

Really struggling to make sense of this nerf as magic resist was fine. And other skills which should actually be changed like mysticism havent been touched.
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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 01, 2018 02:28 PM
Edited by avatar at 14:29, 01 Oct 2018.

Please don't start this many pages wide discussion again!
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 01, 2018 03:16 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 15:17, 01 Oct 2018.

Better keep my mouth shut then, but I gotta say I hate the new Resistance mechanic as well, makes Gold Dragons Peasants…

@Nimostar You can get the classic Resistance mechanic if you selct "Activate test updates" from HotA Launcher.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 01, 2018 03:33 PM

Interesting that the Old resistance mechanic is a "test update". I say it had already 20 years of testing and it worked fine, thank you

Oh well, I guess I coudn't do anything with the HD launcher anyways...
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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted October 01, 2018 06:57 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 19:01, 01 Oct 2018.

Nimostar said:
Nice, though i didnt realize this was the Hota thread.

About hota then, whats with the awful new magic resistance mechanics?

Before this was useful vs creatures like farie dragons or dread knights or mummies, now only vs enemy heroes and even then bad. Is making a curse last 14 turns instead of 18 really going to change the result of any final battle? And reducing damage is even less than 30% since base damage isnt reduced at all...

Really struggling to make sense of this nerf as magic resist was fine. And other skills which should actually be changed like mysticism havent been touched.


in multiplayer, early Implosion or other strong magic is a lot of times too much to handle. since Orb of Inhibition and Recanter's cloak was removed for magic hero buff, this is one way to keep them in touch and prevent an early rush - like a Solmyr / Deemer / Ciele early rush on a smaller map for example

phoenix4dver said:
Better keep my mouth shut then, but I gotta say I hate the new Resistance mechanic as well, makes Gold Dragons Peasants…


can you explain what you mean by "Gold Dragons are Peasants" ?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 01, 2018 07:52 PM

I mean that Gold Dragons were always vulnerable to Implosion, but they did have a chance to resist it. Now they will ALWAYS be hit by Implosion and still can't be resurrected, this makes them the worst upgraded level 7 unit. (imo of course)
I guess if you have Gold Dragons in HotA you should always have either Recanter's Cloak or Orb Of Inhibition to prevent enemy from casting Implosion or Orb Of Vulnerability to actually be able to ressurect the poor goldies.

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