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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted May 29, 2006 09:54 PM |
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I still find it dissapointing that after 5 games, still it is open and normal for merging all sorts of heroes and creatures.
Why should you be able to reqruit a sylvan hero in a dungeon tavern, or an inferno hero in the haven?
Also, mixing troops like Angels and Devils is just silly - and should not have been allowed. It doesn't make any sense!
These aspects take away the special feeling, both playing and meeting other factions. Finding a sylvan hero in the underground which happens to work for the necromancers???
Also, the graphics for the towns are not adaptable according to the terrain like in IV. When you now go to a academy town in the underground it is open sky, and if you fight there it is desert terrain. This is just nonsense!
There were many dissapointing traits in IV, but also many good ones, which they now have abolished. Stealth was really great, and so was the magic system. Why should all heroes be able to cast spells without proper training?
And when talking about the magic system, why on earth have they used different colours on the magic skills and the spells? E.g the summoning skill is green, while the spells are cyan, while the adventure spells now have the green colour of the summoning.
Elemental chains are not explained in the rules. You have to check it up on the net, and not on the main site, but on an unofficial one like AoH or Drachenwald (which after all are the best ones after my opinion). Still Elemental chains are confusing.
When it comes to the 3D graphics, it is so confusing, although looking good. If a monster stands under a tree it is difficult to see it for instance, not to mention the chaos underground.
Why is the angle you can rotate the camera so limited. I thought we should have been able to go down on ground level, and even first person view from the hero would have been a great option.
I think a more 2D alternative view for overview also is needed, like you can do in CIV4.
Destructive spells seems to have been very effective now as well.
Technically, I think a time limit in combat is not necessary in a single player game. Also, you should be able to save and load during a combat if thats the way you like to play. Do one critical mistake, and you have to flee and then load again.
The quick load should automatically load the quick save, and saving alert (loose all data) is something you should be able to turn off.
Another thing is that the game is not very complete by release and patches are needed to fix basic parts, like the introduction of the editor. There are also very few scenarios in the basegame 
I don't think the worst errors lies in the number of creatures or which creatures have passed on from earlier games (I guess they reintroduce many of them in exapnsions anyway). Also some of them have just shifted form (Harpies and Furies are pretty much the same unit)
No, the important things are the game mechanisms and how smooth it is to play it. Also the overview and strategy is more important than the graphics for some people. I can focus much better on strategy in H3 or H2 than in H5 for instance.
These were just some of the frustrations I have by now.
Apart from this, Heroes V shows lot's of good traits also of course, but it never gets perfect unless you make it yourself.
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iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted May 30, 2006 07:53 PM |
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This really isn't a disappointment for me, but they've made Magic way too powerful in this game. A stack of 1 Druid has 12 magic points. A stack of 10 Druids also have 12 magic points. A stack of 1 Druid kills 2 Blood Furies with a Lightning Bolt. A stack of 10 Druids kill 2 Blood Furies with a Lightning Bold. Hmm...
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 30, 2006 08:53 PM |
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I agree magic is too strong. the phantom forces spell can be cast on other phantom armies, meaning a very small weak army can become unstoppable in a short time.
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted May 31, 2006 12:42 AM |
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Edited by Darkeye at 00:47, 31 May 2006.
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Another thing I forgot to mention was the fact that many of the heroes start with skills that block the possibility of gaining the ultimate skill, like for Dungeon heroes for instance need Luck, Logistics, Enlightenment and War machines in order to get to the "Rage of the Elements". This means that only one skill slot is free in addition to those 4 and the Irresistable magic skill.
In addition, Destructive magic is a pretty much needed skill for dungeon heroes.
For instance, Eruina can never get "Rage of the Elements", since she already starts with two occupied slots - Destructive magic and Attack, so she can't get all those four - Luck, Logistics, Enlightenment and War machines to make "Rage of the Elements".
This as well applies to Kythra (Leadership and Estates) and lots of other heroes of other classes.
A hero should at least not start with two skills (in addition to the class-spesific skill), but always one skill and one of the skill-abilities.
When starting a game, you can not always choose heroes and may end up with heroes who can never go on the chase for the ultimate skill of their kind.
This makes the game less fun to play, and the developers could have solved the problem by giving heroes more skill slots for instance, or several ways to accomplish the ultimate skill.
Any comments? I'll be glad to hear your opinions.
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Iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted May 31, 2006 12:56 AM |
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Is that really a disappointment though?
I admit, when I first realized this, I was a little annoyed. If I wanted the ultimate skill, I'll have to take a skill I didn't want (e.g. Defense) or start with a skill I didn't want (e.g. War Machines).
But if you look at it, are the ultimate skills even worth it?  In addition to hoping that the skills you need will show up, you have to be on at least level 20 to have all the abilities learned. By then, the game should be pretty close to being over. Is that skill really going to be effective?
I've just taken to getting skills I actually want. I'm enjoying the game more, I'm happier with my hero, and I have skills that actually aid me in battle when I need it most --in the beginning.
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Shhejtan
Hired Hero
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posted May 31, 2006 07:58 AM |
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Getting the ultimate skill seems nearly impossible in less then very big maps (and even then if enlightment is not involved). Even in campaigns it's just beyond reach. Not to mention that it's almost unattainable by most heroes right off the bat and that it's so easy to get stuck with an unwanted skill (no choice) in the latter twenties.
Now, I agree that most ultimate skills are either lame or total overkill (wizard) but the inferno's ultimate skill is plain unjust! Inferno needs that instant gating, it's so pitifully underpowered otherwise!
Considering that most skills don't mean much (I would'n say lame or worthless just that you don't realy need them or don't realy feel them). A friend of mine was proud of a complex golem+gremlins combo which included two skill trees, but i sat with him for a game of academy vs. academy and just rushed him with gremlins and mages. I picked my skills at random and beat him to a pulp.
Only two skills realy worth a mention are telepor assault (one of the most powerfull features in the history of HOMM IMHO, and inferno's bright side) and the blood frenzy (for most castles it's so good that picking other combat skills seems a serious waste).
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted May 31, 2006 12:16 PM |
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Interesting views guys!
I also admit that the chase for the ultimate skill isn't really worth it unless playing huge map or camapign, and that it is more fun to just pick the ones you enjoy the most. I think they could just have skipped the whole ultimate skill concept!
Regarding Class specific skills:
Should inferno really have instant gating from the start? Gating is after my opinion quite powerful.
Necromancy has been reduced to 5% per skill level, but combined with vitality and battle frenzy the skeleton (archers) are becoming so much more powerful!
Elemental chains are not explained good enough and is very confusing for new players.
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OOPMan
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 31, 2006 01:05 PM |
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My most disappointing feature?
No camp button!
I want to camp!
I want to spawn camp!
I want to spawn camp the windmills, water-wheels and neutral dwellings...
Instead I have to press "Okay" every time I end a turn because my Heroes must never stop moving!
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OOPMan
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 31, 2006 01:07 PM |
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Quote:
Only two skills realy worth a mention are telepor assault (one of the most powerfull features in the history of HOMM IMHO, and inferno's bright side) and the blood frenzy (for most castles it's so good that picking other combat skills seems a serious waste).
Sorry for the doulbe-post, but I do agree on this...
Teleport Assault is great. The only downside(?) is that you can't teleport behind walls. And here I was hoping to milk my Deep Hyrdas for all they were worth ;-)
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Cabranth
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 31, 2006 02:45 PM |
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Hello.
To Darkeye:
Quote: "I think they could just have skipped the whole ultimate skill concept!"
I'm forced to think this is true also. It seems that whoever was in charge of the Skills part of development either didn't spend very much time actually thinking about and testing the design, or they weren't experienced gamers.
The Ultimate Skills are either locked out by starting skills/new skills, or impossible to get due to game length. Add to this the severe imbalance of ultimate skills.
I'm forced to assume game system design wasn't as important to Ubisoft as the hyper-thyroidal graphics.
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okiesolidarity
Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
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posted May 31, 2006 07:18 PM |
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I am rethinking my biggest disappointment here, and after some thought, I've come up with the following:
I really want more specialized heroes. The game is called "Heroes of Might and Magic", but the only huge separation between heroes is in starting skills and one little special ability that they have (character portraits aside [I do appreciate that they've made different map representations for different heroes in the same faction]). This could be pushed so much further in this game. I'm not part of the camp that thinks heroes should directly participate in battle, ala heroes4, but there are so many other things that could be considered to create differences between heroes.
What if some heroes started with more initial primary stats, but had less potential for secondary skills/ability growth (less skill slots, maybe)? These heroes become more favorable for smaller maps, but get overshadowed by other heroes in larger maps. Maybe instead of less potential for growth, there's a penalty applied for having them as part of your army (less creature growth, daily salary of hero, limited access to other heroes, etc).
What if each hero had a particular bias towards a certain set of skills when they level up, or primary stat growth? Some heroes could be incredibly biased towards working towards the ultimate ability, while others could be more focused towards beneficial skill combinations. Some heroes could be much more focused towards gaining attack when they level up, while others are focused on spellpower. etc etc.
What if different heroes got different bonuses for artifacts? A dwarven helmet could add +2 defense towards most heroes, but +4 defense for a dwarven hero (I know there are no dwarven heroes in 5 as of now...just an example).
What if there were neutral heroes? I agree with the statement made before that it is kinda lame that after all the years of heroes games, Haven can still recruit demon heroes. This could be resolved if there were heroes who don't belong to any particular faction, but can be recruited by any of them (maybe two sets of heroes; one for 'the good guys' and one for 'the bad guys').
What if specific heroes had alliances/rivalries with one another? In the same way that there used to be a more pronounced Angels vs. Devils and Black Dragons vs. Titans rivalry, there could be heroes that are known to have a history with one another, that could be reflected through bonuses or penalties that are applied when they encounter one another. Maybe two heroes within the same faction have a history of working well together, and while neither one is that great separately, getting both of them becomes advantageous for both (perhaps they could trade skills/abilities with one another). Maybe two lifelong rivals have encountered one another on the battlefield, and getting bolstered by the thought of the showdown, one gets a +3 spellpower boost and the other gets a +3 attack boost.
These are just a few examples of how heroes could be made more personalized, and add to the overall feel of individuality that each hero could have. There are definitely a lot of other things that could be done to add to it.
____________
does someone wanna loan me the money to buy a computer good enough to play H5 by the time it hits the shelves?
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law558
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 31, 2006 07:31 PM |
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One of the problems I've always had with the heroes is that apart from their portrait they all look the same. It's obvious ubisoft focused on graphics, Why didn't they make a new model for each hero.
(and also I'd love there to be dwarwen heroes, that unlike heroes 4 (and Maybe 3, not sure) were actually short, and not human size.)
Also, why do heroes have to be humaniod, why can't a dragon, or any other intelligent creature lead an army?. Now that would make Heroes different.
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Shhejtan
Hired Hero
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posted June 01, 2006 03:08 PM |
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Quote:
Also, why do heroes have to be humaniod, why can't a dragon, or any other intelligent creature lead an army?. Now that would make Heroes different.
Why do heroes have to hold each creature's hand whenever creatures have to go somewhere? Why do you need a treansport hero instead of having the creatures move by themselves? Because it wasn't so in Heroes III and if it wasn't in heroes III then it's either blasphemy or not worth considering!
I'm reminded of the arabic fellow who bured down the Great Library of Alexandria. His justification was that all books were either copies of the Koran (and as such not needed because everything you need is already in the Koran) or they are full of things that aren't in the Koran (and as such not needed because anything not in the Koran is blasphemous and totaly unneccesary). HeroesIII-uber-alles crowd are a lot like religious fanatics, IMHO 
And concerning instant gating, I didn't mean to say it's needed right from the start, but it shoudn't've been the ultimate skill, because gating is very weak in multiplayer unless it's instant and you have massed up a huge army (which you can't really do without instant gating from the beggining because you loose too many troops before you get the succubi mistresses).
And teleport assault keeps climbing on my list of the best abilities/skills/spells in any Heroes game with each battle. Being able to choose when and where you'll stirke whith any troop is seriously broken.
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Iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted June 01, 2006 03:16 PM |
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This isn't anything huge, but it bugs me.
Some of the factions favor a specific stat way too much. My Sylvan hero was on level 20. He had a Spellpower and Knowledge of about 6 each, Defense of 11, and a Attack of 1. I know Rampart back in HOMM3 used to favor defense, but come on. Having an attack stat of 1 on a level 20 hero is just ridicuolous.
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okiesolidarity
Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
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posted June 01, 2006 06:22 PM |
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Quote:
Why do heroes have to hold each creature's hand whenever creatures have to go somewhere? Why do you need a treansport hero instead of having the creatures move by themselves? Because it wasn't so in Heroes III and if it wasn't in heroes III then it's either blasphemy or not worth considering!
I'm reminded of the arabic fellow who bured down the Great Library of Alexandria. His justification was that all books were either copies of the Koran (and as such not needed because everything you need is already in the Koran) or they are full of things that aren't in the Koran (and as such not needed because anything not in the Koran is blasphemous and totaly unneccesary). HeroesIII-uber-alles crowd are a lot like religious fanatics, IMHO
the only potential fanatic I see here is you
I understand that you think that heroes4 had a better system of transferring creatures to heroes, and you are disappointed that heroes5 doesn't adopt this system. However, as has been discussed in other threads (maybe you should start posting this same complaint in those threads now), it is not identical to heroes3, either.
Firstly, there is now a spell available to heroes so that they can summon creatures from their towns to their armies. I'm sorry if you are still partial to the process of sending creatures off by themselves to eventually reach your heroes; now it will have to be instanteous, poor thing. Secondly, the mass chaining that existed in heroes3 will be harder to apply to heroes5, as recruiting additional heroes costs more money (each additional hero costs more than the previous), and there aren't the additional one-time gold boosting dwellings (naga banks, dwarven tresury, imp cache, etc) that existed in heroes3.
Yes, it has been stated over and over again that this game is very similar to heroes3. heroes3 was also very similar to heroes2, which was very similar to heroes1. If you have any more complaints about heroes3, feel free to start another thread, elsewhere, as this is a thread about disappointments in heroes5, and you have already stated your opinion of "it isn't heroes4".
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted June 01, 2006 07:50 PM |
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Quote:
For instance, Eruina can never get "Rage of the Elements"
I think it's just fine. You shouldn't always go for the ultimate skills or such. Who said you should be able to get it under any circumstances?
It's much more fun this way.
____________
Yes, I play the game only on the forums.
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted June 02, 2006 11:31 AM |
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for me one of the most disappointing thing is the music.
the battle screen music is the same all the times and is realy boring... (not to mention the cutscenes  )
i mean come on look at programs like the rpg-maker it has tons of exiting music that can realy add to a game - boss music , war music and so on and the files are realy small like 20k each...
____________
Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
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Shhejtan
Hired Hero
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posted June 02, 2006 11:51 AM |
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Quote:
the only potential fanatic I see here is you
How does the ability to spot unlogical, unprogressive and dogmatic behavior make one a fanatic? I can tell an elf from a human, but that doesn't make me an elf...
Quote:
Firstly, there is now a spell available to heroes so that they can summon creatures from their towns to their armies. I'm sorry if you are still partial to the process of sending creatures off by themselves to eventually reach your heroes; now it will have to be instanteous, poor thing.
Have you tried playing Inferno against Academy in multiplayer? Inferno is all about having more troops then the enemy (gating, agressive stance, low defense, only one decent shooter), but, wouldn't you know it, the Daemon Lord has pitiful knowledge (much needed to transport hordes of creatures which he desperately needs). Wizard on the other hand could/should be considered a magic hero, since he's got the most spell points, and, well, he is a wizard, a caster of spells by definition. How come then, every time the Daemon and the wizard meet, the wizard has more troops then the Daemon? Because of that practical little summoning spell which gives magic heroes armies, and makes might heroes struggle way to hard to get it.
More on the same topic: If you take an enemy city you still have to trek back to your city because it's no longer the closest one, you need a level 10 hero plus a level 3 mage guild to even begin, so if you are playing a melee orientated town (inferno, dungeon(?)) you have to jog back and forth in the early game and lose turns (and it also means the towns with early archers get a bonus since they rarely lose anything early, if ever), you can't collect resources with troops (waste of movement) and so forth...
I'd say that removing that option (in heroes IV nobody made you move the units, you could've played the traditional way, nobody stopped you) is a serious dissapointment in Heroes V.
Quote:
Secondly, the mass chaining that existed in heroes3 will be harder to apply to heroes5, as recruiting additional heroes costs more money (each additional hero costs more than the previous), and there aren't the additional one-time gold boosting dwellings (naga banks, dwarven tresury, imp cache, etc) that existed in heroes3.
You'll still need extra heroes for the weekly creatures and resources, since apparently only Heroes are capable of collecting them (you need a PHD or something for that I guess). And there are one-time gold boosting dwellings in Heroes V. Play the campaigns, you'll see. 
Quote:
Yes, it has been stated over and over again that this game is very similar to heroes3. heroes3 was also very similar to heroes2, which was very similar to heroes1. If you have any more complaints about heroes3, feel free to start another thread, elsewhere, as this is a thread about disappointments in heroes5, and you have already stated your opinion of "it isn't heroes4".
Well, if Heroes V "was heroes IV", i'd be complaining because of the lack of progress. It's a thread for dissapointments about Heroes V. Well, as you can see, I have plenty. Since Heroes IV mad me realize that all Heroes games before it were cute little games for idle children (compared to it, that is), i'm very dissapointed that the "it's not in the Koran" mentality led to several marvelous new concepts be left out, probably forever (unless enough people start complaining). My arguments are ussualy logic, very rarely nostalgia, I hope you will understand. I wasn't looking for a full 3d copy of Heroes IV (or anything for thet matter). Heroes IV could've been better. Heroes V should've been better.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 02, 2006 01:17 PM |
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Quote:
i'm very dissapointed that the "it's not in the Koran" mentality led to several marvelous new concepts be left out, probably forever (unless enough people start complaining).
you know that this could be very easily adapted to you.
"they left out features major of HIV, which was the only great game of the series, so the game sucks".
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Shhejtan
Hired Hero
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posted June 02, 2006 02:50 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
i'm very dissapointed that the "it's not in the Koran" mentality led to several marvelous new concepts be left out, probably forever (unless enough people start complaining).
you know that this could be very easily adapted to you.
"they left out features major of HIV, which was the only great game of the series, so the game sucks".
Well, I don't like the features of Heroes IV because they are the features of "the greatest heroes game ever", but I like them because they make Heroes IV the best heroes game ever.
If heroes V had the same graphics design, the same poetics, so to say, and a couple of really helpful and important features that were left out (becaue Allah apparently told somebody that they werent good enough for all the good little Muslims) it would have been a great game. Better then Heroes IV. If heroes V had some new and usefull features, completely different from anything tried before, it could still be better then heroes IV. But both me and my girlfriend had passed the campaigns, played single and multy, and have found that it really is a heroes III graphics mod with serious balance issues. And that, alas, is not better then heroes IV, and that is very dissapointing.
Don't spring initiative on me as a cool new concept. I've played the game through and through (serious fan here folks), and the only thing initiative did to the game is make archers more deadly and groundpounders more of a waste of time. You meen if I haste (1st lvl spell i think) my skelleton archers (1st lvl creature, but works with almost any archer) i get to deal not one tousand damage but two? Divided between two stacks if I want? Yeah, that did wonders for strategy, let me tell you... (not saying it's bad inherently, but withoust simultaneous retaliation, line of sight and damage decreesing luck, or something new, it too broken for most towns)
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