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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 13, 2008 09:24 PM |
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Quote:
Also have uploaded Portefolios for all factions so far.
Where to?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 13, 2008 09:29 PM |
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Very true. Obviously, it's subjective which "lore" you prefer. Personally, I grew up with this, the first fantasy I ever read was the classical Dragonlance series (based on this very lore), and I've played D&D based fantasy for years.
I guess we all are flavoured by our background. For me, the D&D system, apart from the fact that it's the one I "grew up with" has the appeal to me that it's extremely systematic. As you may have noticed, I have a tendency to put everything into boxes and systems which some people here have labeled compulsive  - and from that point of view, the D&D system is nice. Chromatic Dragons are evil, Metallic Dragons are good, Mineral Dragons are neutral; Gold is more powerful than Silver, etc. - it makes sense. The classical Heroes scheme - if we look to Heroes 3, for instance, makes much less sense. Red and Black on one side, Green and Gold on the other. Why not Silver and Gold - wouldn't that be much more logical?
Anyway, as you may notice, I am partially breaking with D&D lore in my approach for Sylvan - and that's fine, I don't think there's a value in being a slave to systems - but I do favor having SOME system, whatever you pick.
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What will happen now?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 14, 2008 12:19 PM |
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About the minotaurs changes:
Is the Minotaur Gladiator supposed to have Assault that later upgrades to Double Attack or did you just forget to change it?
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted March 14, 2008 01:03 PM |
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@alci
Some super units are nice.
Are there any grail units?
Personally, i don't want super units as grail units, instead they are better as master units that available for all without one player items (such as grail/tear of asha).
Or maybe you can make new grail system for each faction. But, in the end all factions except inferno will have tear of asha as opposed to urgash thing for inferno. Maybe all faction except inferno must have their own unique grail that can be upgraded to tear of asha.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 14, 2008 01:09 PM |
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Quote:
About the minotaurs changes:
Is the Minotaur Gladiator supposed to have Assault that later upgrades to Double Attack or did you just forget to change it?
No, that is done on Purpose: Assault is upgraded into Double Strike on second upgrade.
Quote:
Some super units are nice. Are there any grail units?
Personally, i don't want super units as grail units, instead they are better as master units that available for all without one player items (such as grail/tear of asha).
Or maybe you can make new grail system for each faction. But, in the end all factions except inferno will have tear of asha as opposed to urgash thing for inferno. Maybe all faction except inferno must have their own unique grail that can be upgraded to tear of asha.
To this point, I have not given much thought to the Grail systematics. I would deffinitely be interested in finding alternative Grail concepts - the current system seems kinda redundant, because it rarely gets in play, and when it does, it's more or less equivalent to instant win, because Grail structure is severely overpowered.
But, like I said, I haven't given thougt to this subject yet.
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What will happen now?
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted March 14, 2008 10:02 PM |
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Quote:
To this point, I have not given much thought to the Grail systematics. I would deffinitely be interested in finding alternative Grail concepts - the current system seems kinda redundant, because it rarely gets in play, and when it does, it's more or less equivalent to instant win, because Grail structure is severely overpowered.
But, like I said, I haven't given thougt to this subject yet.
I agree, especially about "it rarely gets in play, and when it does, it's more or less equivalent to instant win".
That's why, if you gonna make some master units based on grail system, you must thing about alternative grail system, or totally remake it.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 15, 2008 12:30 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 00:32, 15 Mar 2008.
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Maybe have the Grail as an ultimate artifact, like +10 to all primary skills, maximum luck and morale, constant maximum spell points (regenerated at the end of each combat) and a few other advantages. This would make it not exactly an instant win, but very powerful, especially if it was equipped to your main hero.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 15, 2008 05:36 PM |
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It's been a while since last update. I've been busy preparing some very fancy figures about the Alignment and Portefolio system - but while I'm working, I've snapped out a moment to upload Academy. Again, units are presented with upgrades and abilities, but stats are not made. To see unit details, click on the image with the basic name.
Academy is one of those towns where the creature type will have a pretty big importance for its functions - there are Mechanical units, Animates and Elemental units in a wide mix here. I haven't done the exact descriptions of these yet - but varieties include immunity to Mind Spells (Mechanical, Animates), Healing Spells (all), and special respondance to Elemental spells (Elementals) and Banish Effects (Animates, Elementals). Exact descriptions will come up later.
Heroes: Alchemist and Wizard.
Alignment: Good, Lawfull, Radical.
Portefolios: Creation, Community, Air.
Opposed Faction: Dungeon.
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What will happen now?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 15, 2008 05:55 PM |
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level 3
Enchanted Armor: does it make him immune to friendly buffs as well? And how exactly does magic proof stack with Enchanted Armor in terms of damage converted to HP?
And strangely enough that's it.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 15, 2008 06:27 PM |
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very good, Alc.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 15, 2008 07:16 PM |
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Quote:
level 3
Enchanted Armor: does it make him immune to friendly buffs as well? And how exactly does magic proof stack with Enchanted Armor in terms of damage converted to HP?
And strangely enough that's it.
Good question. I never really thought about the stacking issues of Magic Proof and Enchanted Armor. To make it sensible, obviously Enchanted Armor should upgrade Magic Proof. I would have to find another minor ability to replace it maybe. As for the Enchanted Armor mechanics, I don't know - I just copied the description of the Enchanted Armor ability of TotE.
EDIT > Actually, no I wouldn't, since all the Silver Golem gets is an upgrade, I'll simply remove Magic Proof from Steel and Magnetic Golems.
That's it? That's IT!? Are you sick? Have you been visiting seeing a doctor lately? 
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted March 15, 2008 11:35 PM |
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Just for your knowledge:
"Vizier" means "a minister" in Arabic.
"Sultan" means "a king" in Arabic.
When a Djinn Sultan upgrades to a Djinn Vizier, it's saying that a minister upgrades to a king. 
Edit: Oops, I meant to what Mytical said. 
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted March 16, 2008 05:54 AM |
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Quote:
Just for your knowledge:
"Vizier" means "a minister" in Arabic.
"Sultan" means "a king" in Arabic.
When a Djinn Sultan upgrades to a Djinn Vizier, it's saying that a minister upgrades to a king.
Hmm wouldn't that mean a king upgrades to a Minister? Which would not make much sense...
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Message received.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 16, 2008 10:22 AM |
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Quote:
That's it? That's IT!? Are you sick? Have you been visiting seeing a doctor lately?
Have you?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 16, 2008 11:49 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
That's it? That's IT!? Are you sick? Have you been visiting seeing a doctor lately?
Have you?
Technically, yes, as I work in a hospital.
Anyway, minor updates done according to feedback.
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What will happen now?
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sheensher
Known Hero
and Slipknot FAn
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posted March 16, 2008 12:07 PM |
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Everything is Very good, but there should be:
Djiin Vizier -> Djiin Sultan
and You can change first lvl. 
Gremlin Architect -> Gremlin Master
Shooter, Repair Shooter, Repair, Improvment
Gremlin
Shooter
Gremlin Saboteur -> Gremlin Deveastator
Shooter, Sabotage Shooter, Destroy
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 16, 2008 09:21 PM |
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Ok, let's go a bit off the beaten path here, and talk a bit about faction Alignments before we continue with yet another faction.
The idea of Alignments hos not been very dominating during the Heroes series with perhaps the exception of Heroes IV, where each faction has an alignment corresponding to a School of Magic (and then there's might for Stronghold). My perception here combines this idea with an extrapolation of classical D&D Roleplaying concepts.
Common roleplaying alignment works with two proxies: Good vs. Evil and Law vs. Chaos. I expand this model to include 3 pairs of alignments:
 vs. 
 vs. 
 vs. 
The concepts of Good and Evil are pretty clearcut: Good respects and values life of others and compassion, whereas evil neglects others for the personal benefit. Similarly, Law and Chaos are pretty familiar: Law respects rules and structure, whereas Chaos values freedom and individuality. Added to this is the concept of Conservatism vs. Radicalism: Conservatism values the existant and sticks with traditions, wheras Radicalism favors invention and atempts at finding new paths.
Alignments and factions
Each faction has a stance with regard to these three Alignment parameters. This is best represented in a 3D visualization, where the 3-dimensional space is spanned by 3 axis: Good vs. Evil, Law vs. Chaos and Conservatism vs. Radicalism.
We'll think of an Octahedron, which has each of its 6 corners lying on one of these axis:
Each face of the Octahedron will have 3 corners: One lying on the Good/Evil axis, one on the Law/Chaos axis, and one on the Conservative/Radical axis. Hence, each face represents a combination of Alignments, and thus represents a faction in the game. This can be visualized like this:
In the first part of the image, for instance, we watch primarily the two faces spanned by Lawful, Radican and Good or Evil, respectively, corresponding to the upper and lower face. These combinations (Lawful, Radical, Good vs. Lawful, Radical, Evil) represent Academy and Necropolis, respectively. Thus, we see that these two factions alignment wise have a lot in common: They are both Lawfull and Radical, but one favors good (Academy), and one Evil (Necropolis).
Notice also that factions on opposite sides of the Octahedron share absolutely no Alignments aspects, and thus are opposed to each other. Thus, Academy (Lawfull, Good, Radical) has nothing in common with Dungeon (Chaotic, Evil, Conservative). Factions that share a face in the Octahedron share two alignments, and thus are fairly close to each other, whereas factions that only share a corner only share one alignment, and thus are only remotely connected.
By rotating the Octahedron, we see the different alignment combinations (step 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4), and thus see the representations of the 8 factions: Haven, Sylvan, Academy, Fortress, Necropolis, Inferno, Dungeon, Bastion.
Neutral factions
Stronghold and Sanctuary are not part of this scheme as shown here. These factions are neutral with respect to the normal alignments, and will hold a special role. I'll return to these factions later.
I'll stop at this for now. I hope it makes some sort of sense. I'll elaborate later with Magic Schools and Portefolios.
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What will happen now?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 16, 2008 10:06 PM |
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Interesting. Brings more variety and helps with the whole "is Sylvan Chaotic or Lawful?" issue by dividing rules and tradition into different categories.
Now I know you had limited choices and all, but... how could you make the dwarves both Radical and Chaotic?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 16, 2008 11:13 PM |
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Quote:
Now I know you had limited choices and all, but... how could you make the dwarves both Radical and Chaotic?
Yeah, I know this goes against the common perception of Dwarves. However. I have several grounds for dividing like this - besides the mere need of putting something everywhere. First off, let me quote from the Myth of Creation:
Quote:
ARKATH, The Dragon of FIRE
The bronze-red dragon Fire is rash, hasty, and ill-tempered. Selfish and hot-headed, ferocious in combat, he is ruled by his passions and impulses.
He is mostly worshipped by the thrillseekers, of those who see life as a constant struggle and burn it at both ends, but also of those who, like the blacksmiths, shed their sweat and blood as offering to the fire.
Arkath is the patron deity of the Dwarves.
This, for me, very much lies the ground for labeling Dwarves as Chaotic.
As for the Radical thing, I think it goes pretty well with the crafting/forging aspect of the Dwarves. Furthermore, this also ties up with another aspect of Conservative vs. Radical aspect which I have not uncovered yet: Conservative ties up with the natural ("tree-hugging") aspect typically related with Sylvan, whereas Radical ties up more with the arcane, which I think befit the Dwarves better.
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Fofa
Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
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posted March 17, 2008 06:27 AM |
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Quote:
Uh, any idea what a Pterippus is?
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Creator of the Guild and Prison towns for ICTC.
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This thread is pages long: 
