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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 17, 2008 08:22 AM |
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Pterippus is greek for flying horse. 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 10:59 AM |
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Wouldnt it be better if the name was "Pegasus" or "Pegasi" ?
So people know what it is.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 17, 2008 11:42 AM |
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If you click on the box, you will see that one branch has upgrade names Pegasus and Silver Pegasus.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 17, 2008 02:44 PM |
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Ok Alcibiates, until now I mostly watched, but now I'm getting drawn into it.
I'd like to know to what degree you think alignments should (and would) influence gameplay. I think it can become quite a problematic issue. Why?
I hope you know Magic The Gathering, because I'm going to make a comparison. Of your six alignments, five are quite similar to MtG's five colors (Evil - Black, Lawful - White, Chaotic - Red, Conservative - Green, Radical - Blue). One is missing: "Good." The reason is quite complex.
As you possibly know, MtG tries to embody a certain philosophy/personality (defined by a color) into a certain playstyle, which in turn is represented by cards of those colors. Meaning, you try to turn a way of seeing the world into gameplay.
Being "good" is something easy to represent in a game like D&D, because it's (albeit vaguely) defined by some virtues which have a direct impact in virtuous actions (like: I'll spare this goblin's life even if he attacked me). These actions are meant to display mercy, compassion, and empathy. In a game where your goal is interpreting a story (D&D or any roleplaying game) there is a lot of room for this.
Not so in a game defined by the purpose of destroying a designated opponent - MtG, or HoMM. Here, the space for "virtue" is really thin, considering that every action you make should be directed at killing the opponent in the most efficient way possible.
So, trying to get back to the original point, if the alignments are supposed to influence playstyle of a given faction (and I suppose they will), will being "good" have any impact whatsoever?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 17, 2008 03:10 PM |
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The short answer to this is "no".
Alignment will have no inflence on gameplay mechanics. The Alignment of factions will have only importance for two factors:
1) Which factors are considered Allied/Friendly, Neutral, or Opposed/Hostile. This might have influence on Morale modifiers for mixing creatures, but will not have any influence apart from this. I might play also with an old thought of mine by developing a similar system for Luck - but no matter whether this happens or not, the influence through this will be minimal. In this aspect, it will mostly be a system for developing the lore between the factions.
2) Which Magic Schools are favored by each factions. For instance, Good factions will have a natural tendency towards Light (Divine) Magic, whereas Evil factions will favor Dark (Profane) Magic. Again, this is nothing but a tool to systemize and justify what is already in the game (hence: We now have a "reason" why Sylvan favors Light and Destructive Magic, for instance). The whole Alignment-Magic coupling will be slightly more complicated than this, which I will explain later - but again, it has no impact on gameplay other than "organizing" what's already there.
EDIT > Btw. I did not know that MTG worked with the alignments Concervative and Radical also.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 20, 2008 09:35 PM |
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Hey, why no new updates?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 20, 2008 10:19 PM |
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Sorry, I'm moving these days, so I have a lot of real-life stuff to look to. I'll try to get the next things up, but I don't think it'll be before tomorrow.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 20, 2008 10:39 PM |
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Hrmph. What are you doing having a life when you are a moderator of HC?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 21, 2008 04:03 PM |
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I know, I know. Sorry for that. 
Ok, let me try to post a few more things then. I will extrapolate on the concept of Alignment and explain how this connects with Magic Schools and Portefolios.
Alignment and Magic Schools
There are 6 different singular alignments as explained above, and each of these relate to a School of Magic. Factions will be most likely to specialize in schools of magic that match their alignment, but will generally not be prohibited to cross-specialize - however, spells in mage guild will match alignment, thus making cross-specialization more difficult (like in Heroes 5). Whether some schools will be prohibited for certain classes (possibly being replaced be respective Shatter Magic skills) is not finally decided yet.
The Schools of Magic and their corresponding Alignments are as follows:
     
     
     
Some of these magic schools will be rather similar to the current Heroes 5 ones, whereas some of them will be quite changed. I will upload details on the contents of the magic schools later.
Portefolios
Portefolios are a kind of "sub-alignments" - more specifically, a combination of two alignemtns creates a portefolio. Examples of this could be:
Good + Nature = Life
Good + Arcane = Creation
Good + Order = Community
Good + Chaos = Freedom
Good + Evil does not exist, as these two alignments are opposed and don't mix.
Thus, a portefolio is simply a smaller aspect of an alignment.
There are a total of 12 Portefolios, and these are:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Magic Schools and Portefolios
As mentioned above, each Portefolio forms the common element between two alignments. The below diagrams show how the Portefolios relate to the different schools of magic.
As mentioned above, each Magic School has 4 related Portefolios (for example, Divine Magic has Life, Animation, Freedom and Community). The Portefolios will relate the the Magic Classes within each school - to take again Divine Magic as an example, this school will contain the following classes: Healing, Blessing, Transformation and Abjuration. Each of these will relate to two portefolios - for instance, Healing relates to Life and Community. This means, that factions with these two portefolios (for instance, Haven) will be more likely to have this kind of spells appear in their mage guild. Details on how this will work will come later when working more specifically with magic.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 21, 2008 04:10 PM |
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I am speechless, that has to be one of the most complex, well-thought-out alignment / spell systems I've ever seen. I only wonder how the heck you plan to fit all those boggling properties into so few spells and abilities.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 21, 2008 05:17 PM |
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Amazing, but I can't get my head around it. I think I need some sort of big, single-screen table or something. 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 21, 2008 05:22 PM |
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Who talked about few spells? 
Anyway, I'll try to make a all-in-one figure at some time, but might not be before in a couple of days.
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted March 21, 2008 06:45 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 18:50, 21 Mar 2008.
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This is...stunningly well thought out! Nival should really take a look at this (if they care at all). Alcibaldes, I think you just have nailed near perfection in terms of creativity and intelligence to the Heroes series, maybe even more so.. This deserve to be noticed outside HC, to a greater scale. Cause this can bring countless possibilities for future Heroes games as well as other games too, as I would like to hope for.
Looking forward to the all in one figure 
Also, this could brilliantly personilaze each and one of us!
I would classify myself as:
Good-Chaotic-Radical
Divine-Arcane-Chaos
Animation-Freedom-Fire
Brilliant!! 
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 21, 2008 06:55 PM |
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I LOVE YOUR MAGIC SYSTEM!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 21, 2008 08:09 PM |
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Quote:
Looking forward to the all in one figure
Also, this could brilliantly personilaze each and one of us!
Ok, I'm not a great graphics artist, particularly not when it comes to 3D representations, so excuse me if this is somewhat crude, but I hope it'll clarify a few things. I couldn't do a proper all-in-1 figure, so you get all-in-2 figures instead. 
This first figure shows in "3D" how the Magic Schools and Portefolios relate to each other. Note that the "3D" is meant to show that Order lies in front here and Chaos in the back. Thus, thise represent the 6 poles on the sphere (or could have been an Octahedron like above).
The second figure below shows how the Factions relate to this. There are two views: "Top view", which has Good / Divine Magic in centre, and "Bottom view", which has Evil / Profane Magic in centre. Notice that this corresponds viewing the "ball" above from either above or below. Each 1/8 partition of the globe corresponds to a faction: Academy lies between Order, Divine and Arcane; Sylvan lies between Chaos, Divine and Nature; etc. I hope this makes the whole thing a bit more comprehendable.
Quote:
I would classify myself as:
Good-Chaotic-Radical
Divine-Arcane-Chaos
Animation-Freedom-Fire
Brilliant!!
Haha, I never considered that. I guess I would be:
Good-Lawfull-Radical
Divine-Order-Arcane
Community-Air-Animation
Guess that fits pretty well (hmm, maybe Animation should be renamed to Creation instead).
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted March 21, 2008 08:23 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 20:24, 21 Mar 2008.
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Hehe! Nice Alci!
Hmm all this stuff could be basis for some kind of quiz/test...well I guess you got the idea of what I mean.
Quote:
Guess that fits pretty well (hmm, maybe Animation should be renamed to Creation instead).
Or combine them to Cremation
Well Animation feels like that theres a being mastering what is animated, artificial... while Creation feels not, it feels more universal and natural.
I would go for Creation
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted March 21, 2008 08:51 PM |
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ok, one word to say. WOW! this is the best magic system i have ever seen. it is waaaaaay better then the current one in H5, not only does it really mix the alingment and magic, but it also makes perfect sense. way better then Light+Dark in H5 haven lol. i only have one thing left to say,    !
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 21, 2008 09:30 PM |
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Its...beautiful...
Also, the 3D version is fine, don't worry. And rename animation to creation so modders don't get confused in ~2 years when they are modding Nival's Heroes VI, which will use this spell system or I will lead a mass riot and seige all Nival buildings with a combined army of gamers and fellbunnies.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 22, 2008 09:44 PM |
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Alci, I'm speechless. It's definitelly the most complex, consistent and resonable magic system I've ever seen. Not only in Heroes series, to be precise.
When I visited this thread for the first time, it looked both chaotic and overestimated. Now it brings new quality to clearity
I'll have to read the entire thread, together we will create the perfect system which will always be remembered as ingenious idea which has never come true
I like the way you combine both elements, direction of progress and attitude of every school and fraction. I just would fix the dark alignment. It has nothing to do with creation, I would replace it with 'change' or 'revolution'. Now the changes are radical and enforced, in game it would refer to various mechanics tricks. The creation is not attribute of evil, this fraction would rather modify something that is already given.
Evil + Nature, as for me, would be degeneration. The life and death cycle, ilness, mutations maybe? Here's the perfect area for necromancers.
Quote:
Whether some schools will be prohibited for certain classes (possibly being replaced be respective Shatter Magic skills) is not finally decided yet
I believe that too much shatter magic would make the final game unplayable. But you can consider it to some extent as an additional feats linked to opposed schools.
First of all, how would the heroes's skill and class refer to portefolios? I assume that hero can master some alignement and learn all friendly portoflios (let's call them magic shools for short) in this way:
Good = Life, Creation, Community, Freedom
Just to make things clear, let's write down one spell for each school to see if we understand each other:
Life - Regeneration
Creation - Summons
Death - Curse
Destruction / Degeneration - Magic missle / Raise dead
Freedom - Dispel
Community - Deflect Missle
Individuality - Rage (madness?)
Slavery - Hypnosis
Air - Haste
Earth - Blade Barrier
Fire - Fireball
Water - Freeze
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 22, 2008 11:36 PM |
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Is it 4 spells per spell sub-class, plus 5 or more adventure spells?
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This thread is pages long: 
