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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 17, 2015 08:59 PM |
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TASS claims that the US commanding general for Europe has announced that the US will send "instructors" to train the Ukrainian National Guard next month. Such plans were first mentioned at the beginning of the year.
The "National Guard" is pretty much an irregular force, consisting of, mainly it seems, supporters of politely called "far right" parties like Right Sector and Svoboda which apparently look neo-Nazi only to fool the prejudiced but in reality hold the values of democracy at heart (otherwise one can hardly explain why the US are so eager to train them...).
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 19, 2015 05:28 PM |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 19, 2015 07:48 PM |
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Erm... if this is true, then 25% of the Russians are confirmed as complete idiots. The real percentage is probably much lower though, this is some "electronic survey" and the reliability of Internet for such polls is notoriously bad.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted March 19, 2015 08:16 PM |
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I have two ideas on how to solve on this matter.
1.Give all the warmongers a automatic weapon, grenades and a suicide pill. Throw them down in a huge crater. Let them have their war. I am certain it will be just what they want. Those who votes for war can have the honor of being placed in the front lines and we shall see how many will scream for more wars in the future.
2. snow sanity, snow reason, snow mercy - let's destroy areas or even blow up the earth in a nuclear war so that we can once and for all prove wild animals are smarter than us. Cause total annihilation to any living creature is the solution.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 20, 2015 08:26 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 09:56, 20 Mar 2015.
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Quote:
~12% agree to nuclear war only if other parts of Russia (in addition to Crimea) got attacked.
~13% really agree to nuclear war if Crimea got attacked.
+ It's an Internet survey which was on Russian clon of Facebook. Truth be told, it's mosty composed of complete idiots, school boys/girls etc.
+ only 70% of voted people actually live in Russia. It's kinda internatinal vote (R-Facebook is popular in Post-Soviet countries)
Otherwise, even if the number is not that reliable, I still find it a bit worrisome ...
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 06:33 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 18:35, 20 Mar 2015.
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I think the only way to in the long term stop this conflict is to make the EU economy less dependant on Russian energy so that it can endure the trade war following increased military aid to Ukraine and sharpened sanctions against the Russian government. Investments in renewable energy, nuclear technology and an energy union as proposed by Donald Tusk could make a lot of difference in the long term. The alternative is to set a precedent where it is okay to attack democratic countries and I think that would be very bad for the prospects of global order and liberty.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 20, 2015 07:04 PM |
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xerox said:
I think the only way to in the long term stop this conflict is to make the EU economy less dependant on Russian energy so that it can endure the trade war following increased military aid to Ukraine and sharpened sanctions against the Russian government. Investments in renewable energy, nuclear technology and an energy union as proposed by Donald Tusk could make a lot of difference in the long term. The alternative is to set a precedent where it is okay to attack democratic countries and I think that would be very bad for the prospects of global order and liberty.
I think the only way to in the long term stop this conflict is to let Ukrainian Region's people vote !!
If people don't want to stay in this snowty European Ukraine they have the right to do it! You, big Democrate !!
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted March 20, 2015 08:36 PM |
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xerox said:
I think the only way to in the long term stop this conflict is to make the EU economy less dependant on Russian energy so that it can endure the trade war following increased military aid to Ukraine and sharpened sanctions against the Russian government. Investments in renewable energy, nuclear technology and an energy union as proposed by Donald Tusk could make a lot of difference in the long term. The alternative is to set a precedent where it is okay to attack democratic countries and I think that would be very bad for the prospects of global order and liberty.
You sound like a 6 year old child in a sandbox. Instead of trying to solve the problem for both sides you support one blindly. You will never have an end to the russian trouble as long as you focus on one side.
The key is to just be humble and stand down and show that you are done arguing, cause no side will back down and since we know how Russia has been in the past, you can be sure that they won't take the first step. Trying to squeeze Russia with sanctions will only make the russians more vexed towards Europe.
There is a good saying for this whole mess: What you resist persists.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted March 20, 2015 09:34 PM |
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Galaad said:
I think the only way to in the long term stop this conflict is to let Ukrainian Region's people vote !!
If people don't want to stay in this snowty European Ukraine they have the right to do it! You, big Democrate !!
But wasn't there already a referendum for uniting Crimea with Russia?
If my memory serves me correctly the west doesn't want to recognize the independence of these regions...
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 20, 2015 09:57 PM |
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The referendum was a joke as such, it was carried out in a de facto occupation. That said, the majority of the Crimeans would most likely vote identically even in a far more "legitimate" referendum and I seriously doubt that they will just agree to return to Ukraine (especially the current Ukraine). That makes one of the EU front end diplomatic PR slogans "We'll sanction you until you return Crimea back" quite undemocratic, ironically.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 10:24 PM |
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The whole "border taboo" makes me sick. If people overwhelmingly want to leave your country and join another, and that country is OK with that, let them, FFS. They are not property of some so called "rulers of the earth" aka politicians.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 10:26 PM |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 10:37 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
You are pawns.
we're not even that. we're just people watching the game being played.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 10:41 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 22:46, 20 Mar 2015.
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Until there're people who can kill their own brothers, blindly obeying inadequate orders just to save their miserable lives, wars are inevitable.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted March 20, 2015 10:45 PM |
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Let's just have everyone sanction everyone, return to medieval economies, and then all these war and trade problems will be solved amirite?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 11:01 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:03, 20 Mar 2015.
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The most important things are to:
1. Stop the bloodshed.
2. Let Ukraine assume sovereignity over its territory.
Following (2), you can start discussing having local referendums on secession. But you can't have separatists backed up by Russian soldiers essentially holding the entire region hostage. If the people of Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk want to secede to Russia, then that's something that needs to be decided in free and fair elections. To achieve that you have to get Russa to the negotiation table and at that table, you will have to have something to negotiate with, such as sanctions.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 11:27 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 23:28, 20 Mar 2015.
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“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?' There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.
Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.”
- Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 20, 2015 11:58 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 00:06, 21 Mar 2015.
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I don't understand/agree with the point and how it's relevant to the European Union and Russia.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 21, 2015 12:04 AM |
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Quote:
I don't understand the point and how it's relevant to the European Union and Russia.
I've just recommended the book in an unusual way  There you'll find the answers why people are so insane to the point they want to kill each other. Also, there is another great book - 'Catch-22' by Joseph Heller, which you might find interesting as well.
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Sligneris
Supreme Hero
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posted March 21, 2015 12:32 AM |
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Personally, I'm not even sure what keeps the separatists in Ukraine - Russia has plenty of land. Wouldn't moving to Russia be a better idea than starting a war?
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This thread is pages long: 
