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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: mass shootings in the u.s.
Thread: mass shootings in the u.s. This thread is 19 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 · NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 12:32 PM
Edited by fred79 at 12:52, 03 Dec 2015.

mass shootings in the u.s.

another mass shooting in the u.s.

the last time there was a mass shooting this bad, it was kids at school. this time, it was at a disabled center.

the supposed suspects. they drove an suv that was supposedly full of guns.

ok, first off, you don't need a lot of guns to carry out any mass shooting. you don't even need military-style rifles; a pistol will do. so why all the guns?

an suv full of guns, after an armed attack. i don't see how anyone can't make the connection here, that something else is at play. as far as statements go, it doesn't get any more obvious that there is an agenda to this. and that's gun rights, which i think are the real target in this case.

edit: they're trying to pin it on terrorism, which isn't correct, i don't think. terrorists who plan on dying don't wear heavy battle gear, and NO mass shooters have needed to use a PILE of weapons(such as what was found in the suv). i don't get how an altercation between people turns into "let's pair up and kill people with a lot of guns".

this just doesn't smell right, to me. something's definitely up, and i'm nearly positive it's an attack on gun rights. it just fits too perfectly: a couple of people who still have a ton of guns in their suv? who's to say those guns weren't planted? the pile of guns just left in an suv are what makes me most suspicious about this.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 03, 2015 12:43 PM
Edited by Drakon-Deus at 12:46, 03 Dec 2015.

Heard about it. Conspiracy theorists have some red meat now I mean those conspiracies that are too ridiculous even for spy novels and fanfiction.

I don't know too much about gun rights problems because it's never been an issue here, fred might be right.


My sympathy to the people affected.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 12:46 PM

Drakon-Deus said:
Conspiracy theorists have some red meat now



it's not consistent with other attacks of similar nature. the only way this isn't an anti-gun agenda, is if it's gang or drug-related. those're the only other explanations.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 03, 2015 01:02 PM

Well, conspiracy guys will always say it's some kind of threat to national security and/or a terrorist attack because it was too carefully planned out...

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 01:06 PM

That's horrible


Yeah, don't seem like terrorist act. Gun rights I doubt aswell but what ever the cause was, we have atleast 14 innocent dead and lots of injured people. One can just ask, what's matter whit this world!?

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 01:28 PM
Edited by fred79 at 13:31, 03 Dec 2015.

Drakon-Deus said:
Well, conspiracy guys will always say it's some kind of threat to national security and/or a terrorist attack because it was too carefully planned out...


1. killing people with guns is common, and nowadays, mass-killings with guns is common.

2. wearing body armor during these attacks isn't so common, but feasible; should one want to survive.

3. carefully planning out an attack is also somewhat commonplace, depending on the motive.

you fail to take into account, that "careful planning" would also remove the evidence of a pile of guns in a vehicle.

4. a pile of guns isn't needed, and hasn't been used, in attacks. 1 or 2 weapons, any more are just over-encumbering. carrying that many guns instead of leaving room for multiple mags DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. so why the great number of guns, left in a vehicle, after you kill a bunch of people? if they really wanted to get away with it(they wore body armor, which means they at least wanted to live long enough to do some real damage, even if the cops showed up), then gun-disposal would've been factored into the plan.

you don't NEED a bunch of guns, just a bunch of mags filled with ammo. now, having a bunch of guns AT HOME would make sense, but not in a vehicle that you supposedly committed an atrocity with. see what i'm saying?

there's many things that don't fit together as one story in this event:

1. an "altercation leading to MASS-killings"(most are only targeted killings of a few people involved in the altercation).

2. if it was indeed due to an altercation, who would have the sense of mind to throw armor on beforehand, if they were angry enough to kill many people in the first place? if you're angry, you grab guns and do the deed. if you're PLANNING a mass killing in cold blood, you armor up, if you want to increase your chances of survival.

3. (and this one can't be reiterated enough), a PILE of guns LEFT in a vehicle used to commit a mass-killing.

if you were to seperate these details into different events, they would make sense. as they are all supposedly from one event, they do not. it's like mixing oil and water: they don't combine.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted December 03, 2015 01:33 PM

It's terrorism. Attacks on civilians to spread fear in order to pursue an agenda? terrorism.

people are horrible...
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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted December 03, 2015 02:39 PM

Could be that the guy whose job it was to get a bunch of guns, really went all out. Like, humans aren't calculating logic machines, especially people who do mass shootings.
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 03:06 PM

no. think about it. how many mass-killers get away from their intended target zone alive? not many.

so, it's just dumb luck, and an error in judgement, huh? a couple who intend to live through a mass-shooting, and plan enough to where they can get away from the scene of that kind of crime, in this mass-killing era? and they just leave a bunch of guns(that they couldn't have used ALL OF) in the getaway vehicle? i'm telling you, unless there were more people involved, they wouldn't need that many guns. 2 per person MAX, in case one jams and you cannot clear it during a firefight. they planned ahead; unless more people were going to be involved, that many guns would just get in the way. anyone intelligent enough to do what they needed to do, HOW they did it(and get away with it), would also be intelligent enough to know what they DON'T need.

it's rather obvious that the story doesn't add up. it wasn't only because of the pile of guns, either. that's just ONE red flag.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 03, 2015 03:34 PM

Nowhere do I read that they had loads of guns with them fred. They were each
Quote:
carrying an AR-15 rifle and a pistol when they were shot and killed by police after a brief chase in their black SUV. The source said the vehicle also contained so-called "rollout bags" with multiple pipe bombs, as well as additional ammunition.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted December 03, 2015 03:40 PM

kiryu133 said:
people are horrible...


Perhaps. But the "source" could just be that US gun law. And the consequences just go on.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 04:18 PM

Minion said:
Nowhere do I read that they had loads of guns with them fred.


it's what they reported earlier, i'm trying to find it in print now online. although, they might have recanted that because it is so obviously anti-gun material.

more on the incident

...your usual media tripe. i get tired of reading the same snow over and over. it's almost like there's a formula to this stuff: "he's the last person you'd ever expect. the guns were bought legally. how can ANYONE avoid such a thing(hinting at gun laws/registries, etc.) when these orville redenbaucher mothersnowers(who could very well be your next-door neighbors... JESUS!) go apesnow at the drop of a hat?"

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 04:26 PM

@ minion: none of the reports i'm finding now mention the excess guns in the suv in their story. looks like they patched that one up before it got too widespread. mothersnowers.

their apparent focus on this, is that these two were of middle-eastern descent, and that they were apparently terrorists, although "nobody's making any assumptions as of yet". meaning, "read between the lines we give you, america".

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2015 04:35 PM
Edited by Kayna at 16:39, 03 Dec 2015.

I think you try to justify or understand them too much. "Why would someone do that?" "But it doesn't make sense if they did X or Y". Not everything makes sense. People are stupid and act irrationally. It's good to try to understand but, you won't always get a logical answer to your questions, because sometimes, there ain't one.

I can find a link if some Muslim guy from the middle east does a terrorist attack on a country that attacked his. But anyways, best just to wait so we get more information. The usual manipulation is to say he's an ethnic that came from X country.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 04:39 PM
Edited by fred79 at 16:41, 03 Dec 2015.

Kayna said:
I think you try to justify or understand them too much. "Why would someone do that?" "But it doesn't make sense if they did X or Y". Not everything makes sense. People are stupid and act irrationally. It's good to try to understand but, you won't always get a logical answer to your questions, because sometimes, there ain't one.

I can find a link if some Muslim guy from the middle east does a terrorist attack on a country that attacked his, but I can't find a link to justify attacking a bunch of disabled kids.


the stuff i put in quotes wasn't my thinking, man. that's the kind of snow i always hear in events like this. i was making a point by what media always says. i'm not analyzing motives, because the motives are to me, moot. i'm analyzing the story being presented to the public.

anything that appears too convenient, is exactly what i am critical of.


and they didn't shoot disabled people, let alone kids. i had at first thought they had shot disabled people myself, before i read the story i linked. before that, i was only going off of what was reported on t.v. and the radio so far.

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Serafim
Serafim


Hired Hero
posted December 03, 2015 04:45 PM

@Fred

Dont know about you man, but I would get a bullet proof vest and maybe full fleged protection, especially since christmans is coming.

Might aswell spare some money and buy a BTR80 or other Soviet made APCs. THey are cheap and offer protection. I know I would get one.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted December 03, 2015 04:49 PM

Interesting how the large amount of mass shooting that has happened lately by white people have not garnered as much attention...

Ok, why is obvious.

fred79 said:

...your usual media tripe. i get tired of reading the same snow over and over. it's almost like there's a formula to this stuff: "he's the last person you'd ever expect. the guns were bought legally. how can ANYONE avoid such a thing(hinting at gun laws/registries, etc.) when these orville redenbaucher mothersnowers(who could very well be your next-door neighbors... JESUS!) go apesnow at the drop of a hat?"


hmm...


EnergyZ said:


Perhaps. But the "source" could just be that US gun law. And the consequences just go on.


The source isn't the US gun laws (though they sure as hell don't help). It's the values enforced through media and the like, specifically toxic masculinity and similar attitudes. Basically, the western world (and especially the US) still value the wrong things like physical power, action and violence. Lax gun-control only makes it easier for these values to come out in a negative way.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 05:09 PM
Edited by fred79 at 17:25, 03 Dec 2015.

kiryu133 said:
Interesting how the large amount of mass shooting that has happened lately by white people have not garnered as much attention...


you're kidding, right?

kiryu133 said:
The source isn't the US gun laws (though they sure as hell don't help). It's the values enforced through media and the like, specifically toxic masculinity and similar attitudes. Basically, the western world (and especially the US) still value the wrong things like physical power, action and violence. Lax gun-control only makes it easier for these values to come out in a negative way.


another anti-gun advocate. why don't you anti-gun types understand that to protect yourself from people who would shoot you and have the means to get a gun, you yourself must own and carry a gun?

in every case of mass shooting, what i see, is that if more people had OWNED AND CARRIED guns in those places, then there WOULDN'T be attacks(or at least, the killers would be put down before they could do much damage). these attackers only target areas where they have less of a chance of RETALIATION. churches, schools, campuses, you name it, it's a GUN-FREE ZONE.

when was the last time you saw a mass-killing at a GUN RANGE? that's right, NEVER. because everyone there is snowing ARMED. but no, anti-gun advocates think EVERYONE SHOULD BE AT RISK, and not just those people who can't, or refuse to, carry guns wherever. it's just backwards logic with anti-gun people.

we border mexico(where black market items are an EVERYDAY THING), in case the world forgot. the drug war hasn't gone anywhere, has it? and illegal drugs are... wait for it... ILLEGAL. wait, no snow? i thought that you could buy heroin and cocaine OVER THE COUNTER. ffs.

and that's not even mentioning the gangs, hoodlums, and various nutjobs in this country. the u.s. is a melting pot. and what goes into a melting pot, along with all that decent diversity? different cultures who are prone to VIOLENCE instead of INTELLECT.

the countries in the eu that are dealing with muslim immigration now, are dealing with the same brand of immigration that the u.s. has been dealing with: most people are ok, but they come from a place where VIOLENCE is a way of life.

you don't see the drug cartel's hanging mutilated corpses and body parts from bridges in the states, do you? no, that's mexico. and while most mexicans are good people(just like most whites/blacks/plaids are good people), you have the underside of humanity. and they can get and use whatever they want to use, on anyone NOT protected.

in this day and age, NOT owning and carrying a gun for protection is painting a TARGET SIGN on you and your loved ones.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 03, 2015 05:24 PM

You don't mind people on terrorist watch list being sold guns? That happens. You don't mind that about 40 percent of guns in America are acquired without a background check?

The snowing pro-gun people are so dumb they think any regulation is a big "NO-NO" just because, well, because.. "DONT TOUCH MYYY GUUUNSSS"
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 05:33 PM
Edited by fred79 at 17:52, 03 Dec 2015.

Minion said:
You don't mind people on terrorist watch list being sold guns? That happens. You don't mind that about 40 percent of guns in America are acquired without a background check?

The snowing pro-gun people are so dumb they think any regulation is a big "NO-NO" just because, well, because.. "DONT TOUCH MYYY GUUUNSSS"


i'm not dumb, minion. i'm FOR stricter gun regulation, but i don't think anyone should decide WHAT i own(as long as it's not a rocket launcher and the like, there are regulations for those that i agree on, it's called a class-3 weapons license, and your name is fed into a database watch-group as soon as you're on it), or WHERE i can carry. one reason why people get shot(in these mass-killing circumstances), is because they're in GUN-FREE ZONES. the other reason is, they DON'T HAVE A GUN. or enough people WITH guns.

even if you take every legally-owned gun out of the u.s., criminals will still have them. then it would be open season on law-abiding citizens. which i guess you don't have a problem with, apparently.

a last note on your post: i'm not the kind of guy who thinks anyone is coming for "MYYY GUUUNSSS". you'd have to talk to some of my relatives, for that mentality. i've since jettisoned them from my life, as i find it hard to relate to dumbasses.

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