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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: mass shootings in the u.s.
Thread: mass shootings in the u.s. This thread is 19 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 09:38 PM

kiryu133 said:
I find calling guns "tools" to be very scary. They're not tools. They're weapons and they only have one purpose: to harm. Guns can't be use constructively, only destructively and celebrating something like that is what makes USA so damn scary. USA celebrates violence like no other.

I get why: guns are an extremely important cultural piece of american history. It's what got it free and what had it turn into the nation it is today. But this fetishised view of a weapon? As historically important as it is, that's all it should be: history.


a gun is just a tool to get something done. you can use a glass cup as a weapon, just like you can use a belt, a book, and many other things. the word "weapon" isn't really exclusive to things specifically designed to alter flesh or bone.

it isn't about culture, with me. it's only about the use of a tool to protect and serve myself and those i care about. before i was allowed to buy a firearm, i had a stun-gun. before i was allowed to have a stun-gun, i had a knife. where i couldn't carry a knife, i had a sharpened pencil or a metal quill pen. a weapon is just part of my mentality. i don't like being overwhelmed by violent people; i've only ever had to run once from a group of kids when i was growing up, and that was only because i didn't have an adequate weapon to defend myself with. i ran into my house faster than the kids on bikes could catch up to me, and i grabbed a butcher knife. but sadly, they were nowhere in sight when i went to go back outside. i guess they weren't serious about the attack, even though they had put a classmate in the hospital that same summer. that's the only time i ever had to run; and i regret not having had an adequate weapon on me to this day. i've never run from an altercation; i've always stood my ground and fought. i only ever had to retreat once after that, and that was because someone had come for me with a gun and i didn't have one then.

lol, i've heard people call pro-gun people gun-fetishists, before. never thought i'd hear that here. my fetishes aren't exclusive to any type of weapon, though; i like them all(well, most of them. some are horribly ugly and badly designed).


i should really put a disclaimer in my signature: "i do not represent most americans".

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 03, 2015 09:41 PM

I don't know what liberals want gun control to be like and what conservatives think it should mean exactly so I can't give a clear opinion.

Someone care to explain ?

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 10:02 PM

Minion said:
I'd like to hear fred's theory of who or what is behind this attack? You have only hinted at a conspiracy but I'd like to know exactly what you think.


i don't really theorize as to who's behind anything, as i could never really have concrete facts on that kind of thing(due to the fact that i wasn't there, and i didn't participate in anything). i only have my opinions, formed by what is put out in media for the masses(and my subsequent belief that they are all pushing their agendas anyway, and nothing is at it really seems). my opinion in this instance, is that i lack the information that isn't used as propaganda by the media, to make an educated guess. when you find the "why", then you have the "who", regardless of who claims it. and the "who's" fall under certain broader categories.

it's safe to say, that people were killed by guns. that's the only facts anyone has. the rest is speculation, to be used to further pov's.

it's easy to see who will try to profit from this attack, though. the "we care about voters and their mental welfare" politicians, and "we care about removing evil, corrupting guns from an otherwise saintly public" anti-gun people. not to mention, the media that will use all of this death and disharmony to further their fear agendas for ratings. and let's not forget the "this country is number one, and violence just keeps us sharp" warmongers will fight back, and nobody will get anywhere. just like always. like i said before, america is on it's last legs. we're on our way out. might take another 10 years, but i don't see anything bright in the future, no way jose.

i only hope to be there when everything collapses. because then i can make myself useful. until then, i'm outside my element. like a snow in church.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 03, 2015 10:08 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 22:12, 03 Dec 2015.

The two killed gunmen names were Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik. Islam?

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 10:13 PM

Salamandre said:
The two gunmen killed names were Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik.


from what i've read, they were only suspects. albeit great suspects, being that they returned fire and all and made the cops chase them.

myself, i'm curious about the 3rd person. the one that they said had nothing to do with it. the one that "got away", so-to-speak.

i'm curious as to how these suspects were identified so quickly. i don't want to bother going back to read; were they wearing masks during the shooting? exactly how were they identified?

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 03, 2015 10:23 PM
Edited by Minion at 22:31, 03 Dec 2015.

Ok fred I will ask it as clearly as I can: are you saying an anti-gun group hired them to do these killings? I mean is that your opinion
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 03, 2015 10:24 PM

Gun or anti gun, criminals will never ask for permission to kill you.


So what's the point ?

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 03, 2015 11:13 PM

Minion said:
Ok fred I will ask it as clearly as I can: are you saying an anti-gun group hired them to do these killings? I mean is that your opinion


i don't have an answer to that. i actually took some time to consider before answering, and that is my conclusion: i don't know. it's being painted as a terrorist attack, and from what is being put out by the media now, it appears that way. but i simply do not trust media. i don't trust people to NOT put their own spin on things.

it's like that game you might have played as a kid(i did), where you would sit in a circle of other people, and one person would whisper something, a sentence, into the ear of the person next to them. then THAT person would whisper into the ear of the person sitting next to THEM, that same sentence, and so on. when it got back around to the person who first started the game, who whispered the initial sentence, that the sentence was always different from the original.

but back to trust. the reason i don't trust the media, is because they have said things in the past that just weren't true. they pushed for the iraq war instead of afghanistan, claimed that people who were against it were "unpatriotic", and seemed to be paid off by the government to do so. they claimed that the guy who shot trayvon was white, and even doctored the photo of him that was initially released, just to make it a white on black crime. those are just two instances off the top of my head. they report crimes that happen due to one nationality, but not another. they, in short, report due to their own personal(and other's) agendas. they exploit what they can and create a need to watch, just like commercials sell products. they discuss things between one another like life is just one big facebook.

they cannot be depended on, for uncut reality. they have shown themselves again and again and again to be biased, and they have a flavor of the month, or season, or whatever, that they will push an agenda; then they move on to a new one. being that terrorism and syrian refugees being allowed into the u.s. are a hot topic right now, they suspect terrorism. of course, it doesn't help that isis is claiming whatever they possibly can; it's almost like the terrorist world has lost all validity. no honor among murderers, or however you want to view it.

the way i look at things now, is that everyone is playing a game. they're all lying, and they'll all do what they can to push whatever they want on people.

and mostly, people just mindlessly soak it up, like the dumbasses the government thinks people are. and maybe they are dumbasses. but then again, maybe everybody is fooling everybody. maybe it's all a ruse, and nobody cares anymore about actual reality, or even bothering to fix what has been going wrong for centuries. it certainly seems that way, from my perspective. humanity is so far up it's own ass, that it's now came back out the mouth, and is going up it's own ass again.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted December 04, 2015 12:44 AM

Before the bullets even stopped flying the democrat party leaders were blaming the evil on guns.  Marxists always try to disarm the populace.

The "mass shooting" was actually radical Islam yet again murdering innocents. Maybe in the next presidential election we will get a president who will wage war on the jihadists.
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Svartzorn
Svartzorn


Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
posted December 04, 2015 01:12 AM

Hm. Another case of blaming an object because 'muricans are snowed up.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted December 04, 2015 02:19 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 02:23, 04 Dec 2015.

Svartzorn said:
Hm. Another case of blaming an object because 'muricans are snowed up.


A combination of racial slurs and pro-gun at the same time. This is refreshingly new on HC.

Of course gun regulations aren't going to be a silver bullet (no pun intended) towards the issue of violent crime, but that doesn't mean they can't do their part in mitigating it. Other societal changes can and have done their part in making US crime almost cut in half since the 1990s and continue to drop, but reckless gun policy remains a stronghold that puts American safety needlessly in jeopardy.
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Svartzorn
Svartzorn


Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
posted December 04, 2015 03:43 AM

Oh yeah, let's call out some cryptic bigotry instead of facing the facts.
When did americans become a race? Since they're going through this really serious civilizational, cultural and moral crisis, I'm actually amazed that they are still considered a people.
But moving on: do you know of any society in history in which people just snap and go around shooting they fellow countrymen? I haven't heard of it. Specially when it comes to a 1st world country.
All this gun control thingie is just BS. My country has strict gun control policies, but people still manage to kill themselves just enough (+60000 dead a year).
It's just a guess, but I think criminals won't respect the law if asked to.
The other side is pretty inconsistent as well. What dictates the effects of gun legalization is a strong moral conscience of a determinate people, not the legal faculty to bear arms per se.
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted December 04, 2015 06:25 AM
Edited by Kayna at 06:36, 04 Dec 2015.

I'm not sure what to think of this story. I find this calculated preparation and that dispute beforehand interesting. Some people did that snow to me during my years of gang stalking. Some would provoke a dispute for bogus reasons with me, then they'd have the excuse to look at me angrily and etc. Perhaps this is indeed a calculated terrorist attack with a little wink in it, hinting that "we fully understand how you do your bull s--- now". Not to mention that pretending it to be a crime of passion would mislead the cops and thus increase the chance for them to attack elsewhere, something they've apparently tried to do.

As for the "how they managed to find them so quickly" part, sometimes I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with satellites orbiting in space.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Elvin's Lightside
posted December 05, 2015 03:06 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 03:15, 05 Dec 2015.

Svartzorn said:
Oh yeah, let's call out some cryptic bigotry instead of facing the facts.


I don't think there's anything cryptic about mocking the accent of southern US Americans. There's really only one reason you would do that: to degrade and dehumanize, and to feel more powerful and better about yourself in the process. It's not as though the remark contributed in any other way.



Quote:
All this gun control thingie is just BS. My country has strict gun control policies, but people still manage to kill themselves just enough (+60000 dead a year).
It's just a guess, but I think criminals won't respect the law if asked to.
The other side is pretty inconsistent as well. What dictates the effects of gun legalization is a strong moral conscience of a determinate people, not the legal faculty to bear arms per se.


Obviously, it is ideal for people to follow a rule because they are convinced of its worth. It's a silly libertarian idea though, to think that laws don't have an influence on that moral conscience, which can be quite malleable. External factors will alter the internal make-up of people. That happens all the time.
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"This thread sexually assaulted me."
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted December 06, 2015 03:38 AM

Quote:
Obviously, it is ideal for people to follow a rule because they are convinced of its worth. It's a silly libertarian idea though, to think that laws don't have an influence on that moral conscience, which can be quite malleable. External factors will alter the internal


Law can't make anyone moral.  The one thing laws can do is promise consequences if someone does a certain thing.

Example law and prescribed punishment: If you commit murder you will be executed.

The above law can't make anyone not murder.  It can make some people reconsider committing murder out of fear of being put to death, but it can't make anyone think murder is morally wrong. Anyone contemplating murder who does not care if he dies will find the law meaningless.  

Transformation of a person has to come from a moral code that he internalized.

The loons, terrorists, and criminals are not going to care if 1000 laws are passed that say guns are illegal to own or carry. Those laws can't make the above people sane or moral or not want to kill for Allah using a gun.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 06, 2015 06:05 AM
Edited by artu at 11:03, 06 Dec 2015.

He's not talking about people with criminal behavior who will not internalize not to do such acts but a tendency of society in general. Laws have an effect on what people consider moral over time. There are many cases when something illegal isn't considered immoral by majority such as gambling with small money on a football game etc. Still, law and morality aren't completely isolated and especially when you think in terms of generations, something illegal can indeed start to be seen as also immoral if people genuinely respect the constitution and the state which executes that law. It's a very grey area, of course.
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...and the laymen's landscape is rife with quacks and people with strange agendas. - Corribus

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Svartzorn
Svartzorn


Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
posted December 06, 2015 03:47 PM

blizzardboy said:


I don't think there's anything cryptic about mocking the accent of southern US Americans. There's really only one reason you would do that: to degrade and dehumanize, and to feel more powerful and better about yourself in the process. It's not as though the remark contributed in any other way.


(...)

Obviously, it is ideal for people to follow a rule because they are convinced of its worth. It's a silly libertarian idea though, to think that laws don't have an influence on that moral conscience, which can be quite malleable. External factors will alter the internal make-up of people. That happens all the time.


No, I did that because I really think americans are f*cked up. I don't need to feel "powerful" and "superior" in an obscure internet forum: that's just their current state.
Libertarianism is bullsh*t! Jesus! Libertarians do not contribute to a virtuous, morally strong society, thus people won't comply to socially established rules because they lack virtue. They are too preoccupied with their own interests, what is what is left for people without morals - and that's exactly the opposite of what you're saying.
The only way to make people have a strong moral conscience is imposing them social morality. Is to discipline them. You can masturbate your intellect with all this "acceptance" and "modern" junk, it still won't produce a moral, free society and - yeah - it will demand even more statal punishment.
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Death to the world.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 06, 2015 04:02 PM

Elodin said:


Law can't make anyone moral.  The one thing laws can do is promise consequences if someone does a certain thing.

Example law and prescribed punishment: If you commit murder you will be executed.

The above law can't make anyone not murder.  It can make some people reconsider committing murder out of fear of being put to death, but it can't make anyone think murder is morally wrong. Anyone contemplating murder who does not care if he dies will find the law meaningless.  





Yes. People are not like robots, to be programmed to obey something.

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Serafim
Serafim


Hired Hero
posted December 09, 2015 08:10 PM

Always found it funny how the American media avoids the words "christian terrorist" when it is the case.

Just like last time it was about the "shooter" who killed people in a PP clinic.

Guess you really can only be a terrorist if you are a muslim or a communist.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Bad-mannered
Legendary Hero
Everywhere and nowhere
posted December 09, 2015 08:22 PM

Serafim said:
Always found it funny how the American media avoids the words "christian terrorist" when it is the case.

Just like last time it was about the "shooter" who killed people in a PP clinic.

Guess you really can only be a terrorist if you are a muslim or a communist.



Terrorist is terrorist. Whoever they are, they have to face the axe. As President I will crack down on crime and disorder.  

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