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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2018 09:48 PM |
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fred79 said:
artu said:
...too non-sensical argument to reply seriously... Besides, I'm really tired (as in starting to get sleepy), so, you just keep on believing what you believe.
lol, ok artu. it was fun proving you utterly wrong(as if i even had to really try, with your stance on this subject) again. pleasant dreams. 
Oh, grow up a little dude.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 09:49 PM |
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Maurice said:
I see that as quite the contrary  . They are afraid something might happen, hence they bought a gun.
no, they know WHY they might need a gun, so they buy one. same way you would normally buy a tent for camping, instead of sleeping in your car. or more to the point, why you would carry a gun in bear country, in case you run into one. 
Maurice said:
The crux here is that no one should be so afraid that they feel the need to have a gun at hand. Which brings me back to the trust issues that are prevalent in American society.
it has nothing to do with trust. but i've already explained that repeatedly, and in greater detail, a couple pages back or so.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 09:51 PM |
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artu said:
@jj
Yes, the pain is real but it's not permanent most of the time, so a lot of suicides are like outbursts in this regard, people would take them back the next day, if they could. Death is quite permanent though!
And as I said, studies show that guns are not just a choice of method, they make it easier to TAKE and execute the decision. You're free not to care of course, I dont lose sleep over it either. But when going through the issue of guns, them escelating suicide rates (not as the method of choice, I repeat this, but overall suicide rates) is part of the topic and understandably.
I followed the links, and what they show is, that firearms offer a reliable way of offing yourself - as opposed to slashing your wrists, probably the wrong way, wanting to just POINT to the problem you have...
That's nothing to hold against firearms mind you. Reliability is a good value.
The idea that people committing suicide acting "on impulse" is silly - not because it would be wrong, because it's stating the obvious: there is this drive to self-preservation, that won't allow to just kill yourself, so in order to do it, you MUST necessarily be in a certain state of mind. That's in no way different from that it's easier to shoot a person from a distance than kill hand-to-hand.
And while it's true that depression isn't permanent, the most damaging thing is the knowledge it will HAPPEN AGAIN. I'm too lazy to look up data, but I'm pretty sure, depressive suicide victims don't off themselves, when depressed; they off themselves just having gotten off it and deciding to not want to go through it anymore.
It's like with torture. If you ARE in pain, you can't think clearly - and your torturers know that as well. So you would say ANYTHING to stop the torture.
But when the torture stops and the pain subsides, it's the notion of suffering that kind of pain AGAIN, that will break the victim.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 09:52 PM |
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artu said:
Oh, grow up a little dude.
hey, just face it. you lost again. now, off to bed with you. you're gonna need all your wits tomorrow, because we're going to be back at it again. most likely.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 28, 2018 09:56 PM |
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fred, you cross everything that refutes you as propaganda and "blah blah blah" which is practically living in a bubble. I cant visit a bubble everyday. Instead, why dont you read the last 4 pages or so again with a fresh mind tomorrow. You'll see that everything has been said already.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 28, 2018 10:00 PM |
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hey, they actually did it! a school in indiana is actually doing what i said here! 
i'm sorry, artu. i don't want to keep you up, it's just that i'm so damn EXCITED! 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 01, 2018 09:38 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 09:39, 01 Mar 2018.
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fred79 said:
it has nothing to do with trust. but i've already explained that repeatedly, and in greater detail, a couple pages back or so.
Just a question out of curiousity: I know you own a gun (perhaps even more than one) and if I understand correctly, you also carry it with you at just about all times. How would you feel if you left your gun(s) at home and went out and about? And I don't mean in bear country .
Oh, and to throw a bit of oil on the fire: just yesterday I read a news report about a teacher locking himself up in a classroom with a gun. The police needed to come to get him out, during which at least one shot was fired. While not a mass-shooting, it was apparently a teacher who lost it.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted March 01, 2018 09:54 AM |
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you know, if I had to teach a bunch of self entitled soy boys raised by a single mother, or with a cucked father and get lectures about white privilege and other liberal crap, I'd lose it too.
Dunno, if that's what happened with that teacher Maurice mentioned, just assuming stuff as usual.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2018 09:59 AM |
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@Maurice: I once read that Bill Clinton couldnt sleep without a gun under his pillow, in the White House! Considering he was sleeping in one of the most safe-guarded buildings on earth, you can easily say it changes your sense of security, maybe even in an addictive way.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2018 11:48 AM |
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It was probably from having bad dreams about Hillary finding out about his interpretations of what constitutes sex and what is just helping him to relax and come off the stress of the job.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2018 11:51 AM |
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I'd call that Freudian but then it would have been Hillary holding onto the gun.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2018 02:47 PM |
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Maurice said:
Just a question out of curiousity: I know you own a gun (perhaps even more than one) and if I understand correctly, you also carry it with you at just about all times. How would you feel if you left your gun(s) at home and went out and about? And I don't mean in bear country .
simple. before i carried a gun, i carried a knife(and when i was a kid, i usually carried a sharpened pencil, or something to that effect). not as prepared for something bad as with a gun, but better than nothing. the only problem is, having a knife on you is illegal unless you have it to where people can see it. which shows you how stupid some laws are.
Maurice said:
Oh, and to throw a bit of oil on the fire: just yesterday I read a news report about a teacher locking himself up in a classroom with a gun. The police needed to come to get him out, during which at least one shot was fired. While not a mass-shooting, it was apparently a teacher who lost it.
in middle school i had a math teacher who had a mental breakdown the only day out of that year that i wasn't there for class. he was always a bit weird, but i think the reason he had a breakdown(the non-violent, sobbing and throwing his wallet and credit cards to the kids, found underneath a tree crying after he ran from class version) was because i used to humor him when he talked about his past, when he was obviously trying to relate to the kids on a more personal level. the other kids just showed contempt for him(rude snows, most of them), which i think eventually broke him down to the point to where he didn't feel the kids cared for him like he did them(and the straw that broke the camel's back was my unreassuring absence). thus the existential breakdown.
point is, there are always going to be people in a job that don't belong there. for instance, most younger adults these days give less than half a snow about customer service at their jobs. and they should all be fired, to say the least. everywhere i work, i make sure the customer is well satisfied. usually, even if they're an snow.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2018 04:05 PM |
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it's been brought to my attention, that a mod or two might have issues with some of the content in this thread. i want to make crystal clear, that i don't think any of us are malevolent towards one another here, despite our mostly different stances on the issue. i think the defining characteristic to what may appear to be anything breaking the coc, is merely frustration on the behalf of both parties. lastly, my pokes at artu late yesterday, were intended as good-natured jests; hence the smileys. because i understand we're not going to be holding hands and singing "kumbayah" over this subject anytime soon.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted March 01, 2018 04:27 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 16:28, 01 Mar 2018.
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fred79 said:
simple. before i carried a gun, i carried a knife(and when i was a kid, i usually carried a sharpened pencil, or something to that effect). not as prepared for something bad as with a gun, but better than nothing. the only problem is, having a knife on you is illegal unless you have it to where people can see it. which shows you how stupid some laws are.
But that's not entirely what I meant . What I meant to ask is how you feel in a public area, when you're not carrying any weapons on you; I specified guns here because we're discussing guns in this thread, not knives . Would you feel naked? Afraid? Uncertain? Uncomfortable?
Oh and with regards to the mod supervision: we have our assault rifles locked and loaded, but currently not pointing it anywhere in particular  .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2018 04:50 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 16:54, 01 Mar 2018.
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Maurice said:
But that's not entirely what I meant . What I meant to ask is how you feel in a public area, when you're not carrying any weapons on you; I specified guns here because we're discussing guns in this thread, not knives . Would you feel naked? Afraid? Uncertain? Uncomfortable?
i would feel/have felt unprotected and more vulnerable, certainly. not entirely defenseless, because i have the mindframe to use whatever's at my disposal, but more vulnerable. i liken it to when i was in iraq, wearing a flak vest. when we were somewhere where i wasn't wearing a flak vest, i felt like my organs were more exposed. and that's because they were.
not having a gun on you in the u.s.(especially now, and as our population continually grows) is like not having a flak vest on in iraq, to me. you're just making yourself more vulnerable to a possible attack. it doesn't matter that any possible attack might never come; but being prepared IN CASE of one, is a smart move, if you want to stay healthy and alive(or keep your loved ones alive).
like i've said in this thread: i was stationed in germany. while there, i didn't feel threatened by my surroundings. that didn't stop me from carrying a knife just in case, but i didn't feel like the environment was dangerous.
when i came back to the states on leave, i felt the danger-vibe right away. it's a completely different environment from most civilized countries. or it WAS completely different, but now since the syrian influx, i understand people in europe are feeling some of that danger-vibe, as well.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2018 04:57 PM |
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fred said:
certainly. not entirely defenseless, because i have the mindframe to use whatever's at my disposal
fred, you ninja, you! I bet you can use a playing card from a deck as a shuriken.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2018 05:01 PM |
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dude, you should see the kinds of on-the-down-low self-defense weapons there are on the market(looking like one thing, but actually being another; or even functioning as both). i, myself, don't have anything like that, though.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2018 05:07 PM |
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I have a liquor case looking like a book, does drinking count as self-defense in this world of ours?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2018 05:13 PM |
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lol, it's a defense mechanism against the mundane, surely. 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2018 01:20 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 01:21, 03 Mar 2018.
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i hesitate to post this, because i know it'll just start up the anti-gun arguments again. i'll try to avoid reading anything trying to refute this info, but i honestly can't promise anything. i got it second-hand(i didn't write it), and no, i don't have a reference(but i'm sure that, if you look around, you should be able to find this info out for yourselves). i've seen it all before, but never so concentrated into one statement as specific as this. i will have to edit some words, but here is the bulk of it:
Quote:
"There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons better known as gun violence.
3% are accidental discharge deaths.
So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)
So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.
Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.
But what about other deaths each year?
40,000+ die from a drug overdose.
36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
Now the proper perspective of all this becomes even clearer:
200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital(statistically speaking, of course)!
710,000 people die per year from heart disease. Its time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If the liberals and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ................ Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions! So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.
Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed.""
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This thread is pages long: 
