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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: What is the most dissapointing feature of Heroes V?
Thread: What is the most dissapointing feature of Heroes V? This thread is 18 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 · NEXT»
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 14, 2006 05:49 PM bonus applied.

Poll Question:
What is the most dissapointing feature of Heroes V?

Poll Question:
POLL: What is the worst or most dissapointing feature of Heroes 5?

Ill dare post this poll along with Valeries !

The game is on: Imagine, that you were the head of the group planning the new Heroes V ... Imagine, that your word was the law, and whatever you wanted, you could get. *snap* And now wake up, you're just a silly game adict, and the new Heroes is nearly here! You've probably played the demo, or you've browsed this forum and pretty much have a picture of, what the new game will provide. And I bet, that at some time, you've been frustrated and pulling your hair out, because how could they be so stupid to make the game this way, when you had this perfectly brilliant idea? ...

We all know it, there's always something that's not how we planned it to be in our little daydreem. Now, let's see, what the most frustrating aspect of the upcomming Heroes V?

1. The graphics: Does the graphics live up to your expectations? Have they succesfully managed to take the game into the 3D world, or should they just have left it as it was?

2. Number of towns and classes: 6 towns meens goodbye to the barbarians,  and no rendez-vue of Conflux or Fortress - albeit the Necromancers have returned. Furthermore, each town features only one Hero class, and not two as in the previous games. Will this meen, that gameplay is cut back too severely - or is it only a way of removing unimportant classes?

3. The unit combinations and number of creatures: New game always meens new creatures, and new creatures always meens goodbye to some old favorites. Gone is the stoudy Dwarf, the Efreeti, the Naga, the Satyr, the Dragon Golem, the Venom Spawn and many more? Is it good riddance, or should these creatures have survived?

4. Complex and interdependant skill system: Heroes now have skills and abilities, many of which are class dependant, providing a system of a complexity that is almost unhuman. Furthermore, many skills are interdependant, severely restricting your options during game if you want to aim for that special class super-ability. Is this fair - does the greatest power indeed need planning? Or should we rather have room for more experimentation during game?

5. Lack of innovation: Is this Heroes V - or is it rather Heroes III 3D? Where, in all the splendid graphics, dissapeared the room for innovation and development? The town structure and dwelling structure has nearly returned to Heroes III, the town classes are very similar to Heroes III, the creatures are very similar to Heroes III, the adventure objects are very similar to Heroes III ... Is this a return to the good old days - or is this a vain attempt to recreate something that can never be as good as the original, and should therefore rather remain burried?

_____________________________________________


After you vote, feel free to post a comment to explain why you feel your particular feature is the weekest - or bring up other things, you think should have been different!
____________
What will happen now?

Responses:
The Graphics
Number of Towns and Hero classes
Unit combination and Creatures
Complex and Interdependant Skill system
Lack of Innovation
 View Results!

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okiesolidarity
okiesolidarity


Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
posted May 14, 2006 08:51 PM bonus applied.

Interesting thread...I'd like to address all of areas suggested as possible flaws in heroes5:

graphics - while the graphics do not blow me away, I feel they are a solid improvement over the previous Heroes titles.  I understand some 2D purists may squabble over the jump to 3D, but I think the graphics in 5 were executed tastefully, and this is coming from someone who has been a fan of the series since King's Bounty was released.

number of towns and classes - 6 towns is still a good mix.  I'm sad to see the stronhghold (barbarian) go (if they're wise, they'll put it in an expansion), but I wasn't that sad about fortress or conflux; neither one felt like all that solid of a concept for a town, imo.  I'm happy to see the dungeon switch to dark elf history; and i like the emergence of specific rivalries between haven and inferno, dungeon and sylvan, and necropolis and academy. As far as there being only one class of hero, we'll see how this pans out; I am hoping that it means that each hero has been a little more personalized, and has a better chance of developing in a fashion more suitable to play off his/her specialty.

unit combinations and number of creatures - I am sad to see the disappearance of the dwarf, the naga, the efreet, and the satyr.  Death Knights have become neutral ;/...wraiths are ok, I guess...I am hoping that most of the missing creatures will appear as neutrals in the final version, with a greater possibility to run a decent sized stack of neutral creatures (without diplomacy).

complex and interdependent skill system - I'll level with you: I like fantasy and all, but I play strategy games because I am a math nerd.  If I know a certain chain of skills and abilities will be very beneficial when paired with one another (and/or a hero's specialty), and I can gain a tactical advantage over my opponent if he/she doesn't understand his/her skill branch as well, then it sounds like another good area to get an edge in a competetive game.  I feel as though the creativity in developing your skill branch comes after you intuit the basic structure of a faction's branch and think of several good combinations of skills and abilities.  This is just another way to increase the overall complexity of balancing all of the different factors to consider in a game, broadening the spectrum of proficiency/mastery.  

lack of innovation - what is starting to itch a little too much is this feeling that heroes5 is trying to somehow turn warcraft3 into heroes3.  The aesthetic is shockingly inspired by the blizzard aesthetic, which I cannot say I wholly disagree with.  I am not going to lie, the old heroes aesthetic was a little lacking (endearing, yes, but a little too...momma said if you aint got nothin nice to say...).  If they are going to work from any current mold right now, blizzard's is one that has already proven itself to be quite popular with a large fan base.  Is anyone else not that surprised that heroes5 is getting a lot of attention from people who haven't even played any previous heroes titles?

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sisu_trick
sisu_trick

Tavern Dweller
posted May 14, 2006 10:04 PM

I liked very much the Skills and abilities system in H4 it was great...stealth...resurection...GRANDMASTER COMBAT...I simply hate the  <build new building screen> (not the town view)it's so dificult to know witch buildin you are able to build or not (or the reason why not).
The graphics are good nothing to say about that. But....dissapointing
____________

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Fofa
Fofa


Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
posted May 14, 2006 11:15 PM

There's a lack of towns. . .and troops. . .

As they say, variety is the spice of life.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 14, 2006 11:58 PM

Quote:
Interesting thread...I'd like to address all of areas suggested as possible flaws in heroes5:

graphics - while the graphics do not blow me away, I feel they are a solid improvement over the previous Heroes titles.  I understand some 2D purists may squabble over the jump to 3D, but I think the graphics in 5 were executed tastefully, and this is coming from someone who has been a fan of the series since King's Bounty was released.

number of towns and classes - 6 towns is still a good mix.  I'm sad to see the stronhghold (barbarian) go (if they're wise, they'll put it in an expansion), but I wasn't that sad about fortress or conflux; neither one felt like all that solid of a concept for a town, imo.  I'm happy to see the dungeon switch to dark elf history; and i like the emergence of specific rivalries between haven and inferno, dungeon and sylvan, and necropolis and academy. As far as there being only one class of hero, we'll see how this pans out; I am hoping that it means that each hero has been a little more personalized, and has a better chance of developing in a fashion more suitable to play off his/her specialty.

unit combinations and number of creatures - I am sad to see the disappearance of the dwarf, the naga, the efreet, and the satyr.  Death Knights have become neutral ;/...wraiths are ok, I guess...I am hoping that most of the missing creatures will appear as neutrals in the final version, with a greater possibility to run a decent sized stack of neutral creatures (without diplomacy).

complex and interdependent skill system - I'll level with you: I like fantasy and all, but I play strategy games because I am a math nerd.  If I know a certain chain of skills and abilities will be very beneficial when paired with one another (and/or a hero's specialty), and I can gain a tactical advantage over my opponent if he/she doesn't understand his/her skill branch as well, then it sounds like another good area to get an edge in a competetive game.  I feel as though the creativity in developing your skill branch comes after you intuit the basic structure of a faction's branch and think of several good combinations of skills and abilities.  This is just another way to increase the overall complexity of balancing all of the different factors to consider in a game, broadening the spectrum of proficiency/mastery.  

lack of innovation - what is starting to itch a little too much is this feeling that heroes5 is trying to somehow turn warcraft3 into heroes3.  The aesthetic is shockingly inspired by the blizzard aesthetic, which I cannot say I wholly disagree with.  I am not going to lie, the old heroes aesthetic was a little lacking (endearing, yes, but a little too...momma said if you aint got nothin nice to say...).  If they are going to work from any current mold right now, blizzard's is one that has already proven itself to be quite popular with a large fan base.  Is anyone else not that surprised that heroes5 is getting a lot of attention from people who haven't even played any previous heroes titles?



Nice and thorough reply. Just to point out a few things - the options are listed are what I see as possible problems - but it's not because I see all of these things as problems myself. From what I've seen of the graphics as yet, it's delightful, and I actually think the towns and creature themes are pretty well worked through. Of course I have some objections - I hate the pessant, I really don't see what the Dead Knight is doing as a neutral creature - that makes no sense, and more importantly, the ressurection of the old Heroes II Genie ability of killing a certain fraction is downright stupid - that's like 1 deadknight can potentially kill an infinite amount of units, if he get's lucky.

Also, I see too very possible Towns in expansion - a Dwarven mountain kingdom and a Barbarian wasteland orc/ogre/troll/goblin/cyclops thingy - but it's ok they're left out for now, after all, there should be things left for the expansion. And these two towns would go well hand-in-hand as rivals, just like the other towns come in "pairs" (haven-inferno, sylvan-dungeon etc.).

My main objections to the game would be the lack of innovation and the skill system. I'm a bit dissapointed that so little is changer from Heroes 3 - yes, the naga is now called a Rakshasa, but it's the same creature! - a couple of creatures swapped here and there, the exit of the Efreeti being another sad point - but all in all, they are VERY similar. But then, I think Heroes III was the greatest game ever, so somehow, it's difficult to be *really* upset that they're going back to that model.

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okiesolidarity
okiesolidarity


Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
posted May 15, 2006 03:42 AM

I understand the sentiment that heroes5 is just a revamping of heroes3, but I remember a time when folks said that heroes3 was just a revamping of heroes2, and even further back when folks said that heroes2 was just a revamping of the original...heroes4 is kind of the dark horse of the series; it took a lot of different directions and liberties that some gamers really loved, and a lot hated.

heroes5 does kinda feel like heroes3, but they've also changed a lot.  There has been an added emphasis on spellcasting creatures and creatures with special abilities; the skill system/racial specialties have changed and been developed; there are new storylines/characters for each town; there are new multiplayer options for more streamlined online play; the battlefield has been switched from a hex to a square grid, etc.

I also have a hard time arguing with a game that feels like heroes3, because I love that game, and I would love to see an improved version of it.    

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Xytech
Xytech

Tavern Dweller
posted May 15, 2006 10:09 AM

Maps

Personally, my biggest disapointment is the lack of maps, and the lack of a random map generator!
i want variety! that was what i loved about armageddons blade
anyone else agree?
____________

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Mantra
Mantra


Adventuring Hero
posted May 15, 2006 10:16 AM

The Myth of Creation is as follows:

Born from the Void, the Cosmic egg appears and hatches, freeing the twin Dragons of Order and Chaos.
ASHA, the Primordial Dragon of Order creates the world by giving it shape and purpose.
She then gives birth to the Elemental Dragons who are destined to guide and rule her creation.
The mortal races are created as “servants of the Dragon Gods”, and placed upon the earth. Each chooses its gift and its patron.
The radiant Angels choose ELRATH, the Dragon of Light.
The mysterious Faceless choose MALASSA, the Dragon of Shadow.
The quiet and meditative Elves choose SYLANNA, the Dragon of Earth.
The proud and sturdy Dwarves choose ARKATH, the Dragon of Fire.
The wise reptilian Nagas choose SHALASSA, the Dragon of Water.
The curious, restless Humans choose last and select SYLATH, the Dragon of Air.
Smouldering with jealousy, URGASH, the Primordial Dragon of Chaos creates the Demons in an attempt to surpass his sister's achievements.

After several pages of history, this is what we got:

Necromancers worship primordial dragon Asha, in a perverse twisted way.
Demons worship primordial dragon Urgash.
Haven worships elemental dragon of air Sylath.
Elves worship elemental dragon of earth Sylanna.
Dark elves worship elemental dragon of shadow Malassa.
Wizards are godless.

So for expansion remains:

ARKATH, the Dragon of Fire
The bronze-red dragon Fire is rash, hasty, and ill-tempered. Selfish and hot-headed, ferocious in combat, he is ruled by his passions and impulses.
He is mostly worshipped by the thrillseekers, of those who see life as a constant struggle and burn it at both ends, but also of those who, like the blacksmiths, shed their sweat and blood as offering to the fire.
Arkath is the patron deity of the Dwarves (Fortress faction).

SHALASSA, The Dragon of WATER
The blue Dragon of Water is humble, quiet and secretive. She is the serene mystic, wisest of the dragons, and her knowledge is only second to her sister Malassa, the Dragon of Shadow, for her watery realm is ripe with forgotten lore and treasure.
In all things, she values diplomacy, versatility and adaptability. Yet, if she decides to act, she is swift and indomitable. You cannot hope to win when you are fighting the waves…
Shalassa is worshipped by the sailors, fishermen and pirates, but also by the prophets, hermits and wisemen.
She is the patron-deity of the Nagas (Sanctuary faction).
____________

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 15, 2006 10:55 AM

Quote:
The Myth of Creation is as follows:

Born from the Void, the Cosmic egg appears and hatches, freeing the twin Dragons of Order and Chaos.
ASHA, the Primordial Dragon of Order creates the world by giving it shape and purpose.
She then gives birth to the Elemental Dragons who are destined to guide and rule her creation.
The mortal races are created as “servants of the Dragon Gods”, and placed upon the earth. Each chooses its gift and its patron.
The radiant Angels choose ELRATH, the Dragon of Light.
The mysterious Faceless choose MALASSA, the Dragon of Shadow.
The quiet and meditative Elves choose SYLANNA, the Dragon of Earth.
The proud and sturdy Dwarves choose ARKATH, the Dragon of Fire.
The wise reptilian Nagas choose SHALASSA, the Dragon of Water.
The curious, restless Humans choose last and select SYLATH, the Dragon of Air.
Smouldering with jealousy, URGASH, the Primordial Dragon of Chaos creates the Demons in an attempt to surpass his sister's achievements.

After several pages of history, this is what we got:

Necromancers worship primordial dragon Asha, in a perverse twisted way.
Demons worship primordial dragon Urgash.
Haven worships elemental dragon of air Sylath.
Elves worship elemental dragon of earth Sylanna.
Dark elves worship elemental dragon of shadow Malassa.
Wizards are godless.

So for expansion remains:

ARKATH, the Dragon of Fire
The bronze-red dragon Fire is rash, hasty, and ill-tempered. Selfish and hot-headed, ferocious in combat, he is ruled by his passions and impulses.
He is mostly worshipped by the thrillseekers, of those who see life as a constant struggle and burn it at both ends, but also of those who, like the blacksmiths, shed their sweat and blood as offering to the fire.
Arkath is the patron deity of the Dwarves (Fortress faction).

SHALASSA, The Dragon of WATER
The blue Dragon of Water is humble, quiet and secretive. She is the serene mystic, wisest of the dragons, and her knowledge is only second to her sister Malassa, the Dragon of Shadow, for her watery realm is ripe with forgotten lore and treasure.
In all things, she values diplomacy, versatility and adaptability. Yet, if she decides to act, she is swift and indomitable. You cannot hope to win when you are fighting the waves…
Shalassa is worshipped by the sailors, fishermen and pirates, but also by the prophets, hermits and wisemen.
She is the patron-deity of the Nagas (Sanctuary faction).



This is extremely interesting with regard to future expansions ... Where does this text come from?

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Mantra
Mantra


Adventuring Hero
posted May 15, 2006 01:30 PM

This comes from the Myth of Creation, it is only a small part of the story. It details every faction, from the beginning of time, and how each it reached the present situation.
____________

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 15, 2006 03:22 PM

Quote:
This comes from the Myth of Creation, it is only a small part of the story. It details every faction, from the beginning of time, and how each it reached the present situation.



Yes, so I understood from your first post ... I was just curious as to where you found this myth - is it "official" anywhere, because that'll more or less say for certain which towns will be included in the first expansion, which I find quite significant.

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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted May 15, 2006 05:29 PM

MAPS!

I agree with Xytech.
For me the biggest disappointment is the lack of multiplayer maps.
I mean there is only a handful of them and with no editor and no random map generator they will soon get mastered and become boring.
I wouldn't count for random map generator. I think it'd be far too difficult, if not impossible, to make a sensible one, because maps in H5 are far more complex than those in H3.
So let us hope that the map editor arrives soon.
____________
Common sense is not so common.

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law558
law558


Adventuring Hero
posted May 15, 2006 07:31 PM

For me, a disappointing feature, is the new storylines and history.

All the history of heroes 1-4 has been discarded, to make way for a totally different one. While the new history will probably be interesting. Heroes 5 can't really be called Heroes 5 in my opinion, as it has nothing to do with the other 4.

I thought heroes 4 changed the story much better, by using the 'sword of frost and armagedon's blade' storyline to destory the heroes 3 world and start afresh in heroes 4.
____________

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rainmight
rainmight

Tavern Dweller
posted May 15, 2006 08:22 PM

IMHO, the graphics are disapointing. Not that the game is not beautiful, these are the best graphics I see on a game of the kind. But I wonder if such kind of game need so much details. I would have expected more options (like turn off the SHADOWS (absolutely useless eyecandies and in HOMMV they are everywhere)) to adapt the game engine to what I need (and what my computer can load). Yeah, I can run fear in 1024X768 with EVERY option turned on for the graphic quality, but heroes V is glitchy when I zoom out, no mather what quality of graphics I set. I think they lost time changing the game engine since the 3rd of the serie. I tought it was going to be more cartoon-like rather than realistic. They could have kept those high graphics for the fights and leave the map less system-demanding.

But every other thing is perfect in this game. The factions are supra-interesting, new initiative system is EXCELLENT. Well .. I can't w8 to "dismiss" my 0-day release and buy the retail game at the computer store, 'cuz I hope those annoyances will be adressed in the real retail.

Waves from Quebec !  
____________

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Silverhawk5504
Silverhawk5504


Hired Hero
The Forsaken One
posted May 15, 2006 11:01 PM

Attrocious...

I cannot describe the ineptness of the AI in this game.  I find it absolutely attrocious and think that it is one of the key fascets of the.  Fabrice Cambounet mentioned that it was the last part of the game that they focused on so it received the least attention...

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

Yea, so I'm interested in having good graphics but when it comes to the AI being a moron, I don't care...who do they think they're dealing with...a bunch of nit-witts.  No one cares about the interface, no one cares about how clear the little blades of grass can be seen.  

What we care about...is that the stupid computer dosn't make poor battle decisions (excerpt from H3 where the AI would come out of his castle and stand on the castle moat and get damaged)!

____________
~Dima

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 16, 2006 01:31 AM

Quote:
What we care about...is that the stupid computer dosn't make poor battle decisions (excerpt from H3 where the AI would come out of his castle and stand on the castle moat and get damaged)!



Ha ha ... I remember that. Or when they didn't understand, that if they placed a creature in front of the gate, it couldn't be opened. I had much use of that.

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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted May 16, 2006 02:04 AM

Try playing on hard difficulty.
Obviously AI is not a live opponent with brains, but it plays out tactical battles reasonably well (For example if they have much more shooters they tend to stand ground and wait for u to come)
AI is pretty good, or at least decent imo.

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Khan
Khan


Hired Hero
Order in Chaos
posted May 16, 2006 09:32 AM

Quote:
The Myth of Creation is as follows:

......Haven worships elemental dragon of air Sylath......


I love the information given here and did not know all of it however the Haven worship the dragon of light Elrath when they gave up their worship of the dragon of Air.

Which leaves a space for a faction which has Sylath as its patron! (Probably enemy to Haven as Sylath is undoubtedly unhappy with the defection)

My big gripe with H5 is definitely lack of maps.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 16, 2006 09:40 AM

And nobody ever replied to as where this Myth Of Creation was available.

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sisu_trick
sisu_trick

Tavern Dweller
posted May 16, 2006 12:38 PM
Edited by Lich_King at 14:23, 16 May 2006.

~Quote removed due the absence of the post which was against the rules.~

It's out on MAY 19..so that's not a official version...it's not so starnge to get an error like that if it's a...illegal version
____________

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